I'm genuinely confused how they think people will believe this - it really is the "just lie" stage. Take a look at these statements from steam and itch.io:
"We were recently notified that certain games on Steam may violate the rules and standards set forth by our payment processors and their related card networks and banks."
"Recently, we came under scrutiny from our payment processors regarding the nature of some content hosted on itch.io."
It is extremely clear from these official statements that the payment processors actively reached out to these platforms and made at the very least an implication that they could lose access to payments.
Why would anyone believe MasterCard over Steam and Itch?
> At the same time, we require merchants to have appropriate controls to ensure Mastercard cards cannot be used for unlawful purchases, including illegal adult content.
This part is doing all the work. They aren't going to spell it out for you. But you can read this great ACLU filing that explains, in detail, what they are intentionally glossing over when they say "appropriate controls". https://www.aclu.org/documents/federal-trade-commission-comp... (Federal Trade Commission Complaint - MasterCard, Inc.
"We don't ban legal content! Oh no, we just follow the law."
>>Mastercard has not evaluated any game or required restrictions of any activity on game creator sites and platforms, contrary to media reports and allegations.
Our payment network follows standards based on the rule of law. Put simply, we allow all lawful purchases on our network. At the same time, we require merchants to have appropriate controls to ensure Mastercard cards cannot be used for unlawful purchases, including illegal adult content.
If this statement was remotely true then itch.io would have no problem allowing NSFW and LGBT content, and steam would be fully allowed to host their incestuous adult games. Alas, that is not the world we live in.
These companies need to be properly regulated so this statement is true (instead of false) it is also ironic they can post this from one of the most expensive / highest income communities in the country.
The average income is significantly north of a quarter million per household.
So it explains why these people are out of touch to such a degree that they can insist something being possibly illegal in <random country> means a global ban is warranted.
If you have concerns in this space, you may be wise to consider what interpretation of law, and concomitant legal advice, might motivate such a statement on the part of a payment network based in the United States.
Sorry but I do not care to even process the excuses, lies, and deflection from Visa or Mastercard. These companies need to be regulated like the public utilities they are, and forced to accept every transaction that isn’t proven to be illegal ahead of time. Or replaced with government funded (public, gasp!) payment services. I do not like monopolies or duopolies (like here) or oligopolies anywhere. But especially when it comes to things as fundamental as speech or payments, since we are a democracy.
Remember, it’s never just about games. These same companies censored journalism and accountability when they blocked donations to Wikileaks like 15-20 years ago. They’re too powerful and cannot be trusted. Call and write to your legislators every day to get payment processors regulated and fined.
Does anyone know what laws they might be pointing to?
I realize this is all nonsense, but I'm curious whether there's any sort of plausible deniability whatsoever they can point to (so that in turn can be addressed), or if it's just complete absolute nonsense.
- Activism group lobbies banks/card companies/payment processors to ban content
- itch.io takes immediate action to prevent them from losing access to payment processing
- Mass outrage, lots of confusion, various conflicting claims such as “I've had games vanish from my account”
- The developers of “Mouthwashing”, in particular, complain about having had their game delisted on itch.io
- itch.io responds saying “Mouthwashing” was delisted a long time ago, because their “Download” button was a link to their Steam page. Also says they're looking into resolving things with Paypal and Stripe (their payment processors)
- itch.io responds again saying free NSFW content will be reindexed, and that hopefully soon paid NSFW content will be reindexed and made available soon once talks with payment processors resolve issues
- Now, Mastercard says none of this is their fault, they've had the same policies as always, e.g. anything's fine as long as it's not illegal
It's hard to figure out what's actually going on here. Is it Stripe and Paypal that are preventing itch.io to resume operations as normal, because they think the card companies like Mastercard are going to impose new restrictions as a result of activist lobbying? Or what?
Regardless, the beating itch.io has been taking on social media has been incredibly disheartening to see. It's obvious that they don't want to have to deal with this problem any more than anyone else, and that it's been thrust upon them—yet, there's been a lot of incredibly histrionic overreaction from users on social media, directed at itch.io, for their defensive actions.
There is definitely a lot of links in this chain. Maybe leafo [1] can chime-in and say exactly what happened. But I suspect that someone downstream of Visa/Mastercard anticipated that the payment card processors would not permit the transactions and relayed that back up to the merchants, and they shut it off preemptively.
But it's hard to say. Mastercard is now saying that they never said or did anything. So where did the outrage come from? Someone must have done something.
It's good to know the mega-corp I have to put enormous amount of trust with my money, can make a post like this without an hint of irony...
Now we are at the "just lie" stage.
I'm genuinely confused how they think people will believe this - it really is the "just lie" stage. Take a look at these statements from steam and itch.io:
"We were recently notified that certain games on Steam may violate the rules and standards set forth by our payment processors and their related card networks and banks."
"Recently, we came under scrutiny from our payment processors regarding the nature of some content hosted on itch.io."
It is extremely clear from these official statements that the payment processors actively reached out to these platforms and made at the very least an implication that they could lose access to payments.
Why would anyone believe MasterCard over Steam and Itch?
They're lying by omission.
> At the same time, we require merchants to have appropriate controls to ensure Mastercard cards cannot be used for unlawful purchases, including illegal adult content.
This part is doing all the work. They aren't going to spell it out for you. But you can read this great ACLU filing that explains, in detail, what they are intentionally glossing over when they say "appropriate controls". https://www.aclu.org/documents/federal-trade-commission-comp... (Federal Trade Commission Complaint - MasterCard, Inc.
Document Date: August 30, 2023)
Also, it's not illegal to buy and sell porn games.
And even if it is in certain jurisdictions, that is an issue for the legal system to work out, not the payment processor.
This response is more BS than a cattle rancher deals with in a year.
https://archive.is/o9mim (No cookie link)
"We don't ban legal content! Oh no, we just follow the law."
>>Mastercard has not evaluated any game or required restrictions of any activity on game creator sites and platforms, contrary to media reports and allegations. Our payment network follows standards based on the rule of law. Put simply, we allow all lawful purchases on our network. At the same time, we require merchants to have appropriate controls to ensure Mastercard cards cannot be used for unlawful purchases, including illegal adult content.
If this statement was remotely true then itch.io would have no problem allowing NSFW and LGBT content, and steam would be fully allowed to host their incestuous adult games. Alas, that is not the world we live in.
Isn't the problem that the government made "woke illegal" without actually defining it, and everyone is shitting themselves over what to do or not do?
These companies need to be properly regulated so this statement is true (instead of false) it is also ironic they can post this from one of the most expensive / highest income communities in the country.
The average income is significantly north of a quarter million per household.
So it explains why these people are out of touch to such a degree that they can insist something being possibly illegal in <random country> means a global ban is warranted.
If you have concerns in this space, you may be wise to consider what interpretation of law, and concomitant legal advice, might motivate such a statement on the part of a payment network based in the United States.
I was foolishly expecting clarification given the title.
Unfortunately "law" is an ambiguous term (like freedom, justice... advertising)
is this their attempt to pin it on Visa / other networks? Or are they claiming that they actually had a valid legal issue against steam's policies?
Defenitely at least claiming the legal issue - they don’t take any responsibility and say that law required them to act like they did.
Sorry but I do not care to even process the excuses, lies, and deflection from Visa or Mastercard. These companies need to be regulated like the public utilities they are, and forced to accept every transaction that isn’t proven to be illegal ahead of time. Or replaced with government funded (public, gasp!) payment services. I do not like monopolies or duopolies (like here) or oligopolies anywhere. But especially when it comes to things as fundamental as speech or payments, since we are a democracy.
Remember, it’s never just about games. These same companies censored journalism and accountability when they blocked donations to Wikileaks like 15-20 years ago. They’re too powerful and cannot be trusted. Call and write to your legislators every day to get payment processors regulated and fined.
> Or replaced with government funded (public, gasp!) payment services.
Do you think FedNow will allow payments to Steam and Itch.io for porno video games?
I expect FedNow to disappear since they will kill free tax filing by the IRS
This would be less of an issue if there was robust competition in payment processing. Time to break up Visa and Mastercard.
Illegal adult content? Does such a thing even exist in America?
So basically, "we didn't forbid anything that's already not illegal". Rather fake excuse.
Does anyone know what laws they might be pointing to?
I realize this is all nonsense, but I'm curious whether there's any sort of plausible deniability whatsoever they can point to (so that in turn can be addressed), or if it's just complete absolute nonsense.
So if I'm understanding the situation correctly:
- Activism group lobbies banks/card companies/payment processors to ban content
- itch.io takes immediate action to prevent them from losing access to payment processing
- Mass outrage, lots of confusion, various conflicting claims such as “I've had games vanish from my account”
- The developers of “Mouthwashing”, in particular, complain about having had their game delisted on itch.io
- itch.io responds saying “Mouthwashing” was delisted a long time ago, because their “Download” button was a link to their Steam page. Also says they're looking into resolving things with Paypal and Stripe (their payment processors)
- itch.io responds again saying free NSFW content will be reindexed, and that hopefully soon paid NSFW content will be reindexed and made available soon once talks with payment processors resolve issues
- Now, Mastercard says none of this is their fault, they've had the same policies as always, e.g. anything's fine as long as it's not illegal
It's hard to figure out what's actually going on here. Is it Stripe and Paypal that are preventing itch.io to resume operations as normal, because they think the card companies like Mastercard are going to impose new restrictions as a result of activist lobbying? Or what?
Regardless, the beating itch.io has been taking on social media has been incredibly disheartening to see. It's obvious that they don't want to have to deal with this problem any more than anyone else, and that it's been thrust upon them—yet, there's been a lot of incredibly histrionic overreaction from users on social media, directed at itch.io, for their defensive actions.
There is definitely a lot of links in this chain. Maybe leafo [1] can chime-in and say exactly what happened. But I suspect that someone downstream of Visa/Mastercard anticipated that the payment card processors would not permit the transactions and relayed that back up to the merchants, and they shut it off preemptively.
But it's hard to say. Mastercard is now saying that they never said or did anything. So where did the outrage come from? Someone must have done something.
https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=leafo