> If you don't care about business practices and general privacy concerns, Bambu.
While I agree, I think it's heavily underselling Bambulab printers in terms of UX and print quality, they are the absolute best in the market and by a mile.
+1. Bambu is the difference between 'my hobby is 3d printers' vs 'my hobby is 3d printing'. The damn thing sits in the garage idle for months and then it just prints a whole spool of stuff perfectly without even a drop of oil (which it asked for in between plates, I'll grant it that).
I got a Bambu A1 Mini a few weeks ago and it's practically easier than 2D printing. Printed a whole tabletop game that I played with friends, and replacement parts for a gun that held up at the range.
Also given what you've said about privacy, that probably eliminates Bambu and possibly the Centuri Carbon (not sure). The SV08 can be ran offline, but it does try to phone home (3rd party) whenever it's online. Prusa might be your best bet of these when it comes to privacy.
Prusa is by far the most "open" probably with the SV08 second because it uses so much from the open source community (it's Voron inspired).
If you have a lot of time to spend, you could build a Voron, but I would not recommend that to anyone new to 3D printing.
It's incredibly frustrating that the majority of devices today report usage to the mothership without the user's consent. Does firewalling the device cause any issues? A printer (of any kind) should not reach the open Internet, period.
All of these printers can be run completely offline, although then you obviously lose any network-related features such as sending prints over the network. I know that at least the Bambu printers (and I assume most others) can also be run in LAN-only mode, where they only work with devices on the same network. In this mode you could definitely firewall them without causing issues. The main features you lose by being in LAN-only mode are the phone app and being able to access the printer from off your network.
I second this. I run an A1 on a separate IoT wifi network that doesn't have outbound connectivity and using nftables rules for forwarding can send prints from my normal network with minimal fuss.
I did have to play around and use orcaslicer to get the printer set up using the network printing and camera feed working.
The one issue I do have is that it seems I would need to connect the printer to a internet enabled Network to get firmware updates, because the firmware version I have is ironically the one before they enabled SD card updating lol.
Back to the original question, I've had this printer for about a month and have been printing virtually non-stop with very minimal complaints. Coming from an ender 3 it is absolutely night and day in terms of ease of setup and general usage.
Octoprint is still a great piece of software that works with most printers, but it's running into a dead end where streaming G Code over the USB Serial emulation isn't fast enough on the newest generation of printers to keep them printing at their full speed.
This is if you like tinkering with printers. I gave away my Wanhao and bought a Bambu, and I haven't thought about the printer since. Now I just print.
Ditto here with a Qidi. It used to be an advanced test in mechanical competence to print a benchy. Leveling the bed and keeping the nozzle clear were beyond my skill level. With the Bambu it mostly just works. 3D printing went from a dancing pig to one of my favorite tools.
Qidi turned around and offered a Bambu competitor, and I hear it's good. This industry is evolving as quickly as PCs in the eighties.
Bambu P1S, no question. Enclosed with filter for ABS fumes etc. Personally I've only used their A1, but it's the best printer I've ever used by far, and it's the first one that you can treat like a paper printer: plop it down, ignore it til you need to print, hit print and assume it works with no supervision. An absolute joy. It's also FAST compared to last gen printers.
They do have a bunch of cloud service BS and phoning home that runs afoul of the HN spirit, but there's a LAN mode that allows you to send prints from LAN without opening up to the wider internet. If that's still too restrictive, you can always do direct SD card transfers via sneakernet.
Software might be too closed for you, IDK if there are jailbreaks. Repairability is possible but fiddly – akin to current gen car engines, rather than 70s types. They're very popular printers, I've only needed to open the head once, and there were plenty of YT teardown videos to help.
The Bambu slicer is good. They've got niceties for basic operations like snapping to bed or scaling up/down by a few percent. I believe it's based on cura slicer, which is also excellent.
P1S is at the midpoint of your budget. Their next model up is $1200, depending on your flexibility. Might have some value if you're doing more obscure materials. Didn't realize how cheap the enclosed ones had gotten. I've got half a mind to upgrade myself now....
I agree that the Bambu printers are as good as it gets for plug-and-play printing, but I wouldn't trust the tiny carbon filter for toxic fumes in an indoor environment.
The better VOC filters use a larger amount of activated carbon and they recirculate a high volume of chamber air inside the chamber.
Activated carbon also needs to be replaced over time as it loses capacity to adsorb more VOCs.
Except this person cares about privacy and openness, and Bambu is an awful VC funded push everyone out by undercutting prices and then enshittify company.
To all the people in the comments popping off about how "it just works". I have a Makerbot 2 running Sailfish, it's "just worked" for 12 years. I haven't replaced a single part on it. Ever since I started using the Prusa Slicer I've got dimensionally accurate parts every time I hit print. At least from my PoV "the printer just working" is a solved problem and has been for a long time now. PLA, PETG, PCTG, TPU. No issues with anything and I've been able to drive it at about 150% the speed I could with the original firmware/software.
I guess. Having just bought a Prusa Core One because of concerns about the direction Bambu is headed...
I regret it. Hands down. It is absolutely worse from a practical standpoint than the much older X1C I have, and the absolutely maddening part is that the "worse" bits are mostly software related.
You can hate on Bambu all you want (and frankly - a good chunk of it is well earned, but some is exaggerated or false) - but it feels like they use their products, and they care enough to fix the rough spots.
So while I like the ideals of Prusa... I can't say I'm super impressed with their latest offerings. Bambu's ecosystem is justly WILDLY better. The slicer is less annoying, the printer is more consistent, the monitoring tools are better, and most importantly - when I hit print, it just fucking does it.
I've had the Core One for less than 3 months, and I'm already into the double digits for number times I hit print and I come back 5 hours later to find.... it hasn't even damn well started the job. Instead...
"nozzle wipe failed. Retry?"
"different filament is loaded. unload? Select No to start print" (side note - it's just fucking wrong here, the filament from the correct MMU slot IS loaded, I just did it manually at the printer because if I don't and I switch materials - the next print is a guaranteed failure. The MMU is a whole different clusterfuck of bad software design, cool 3d printed engineering, bad software design)
"Nozzle clean failed. Retry?"
"The bed appears to be unlevel. Perform leveling?"
"Bed heating disabled due to inactivity" (This one still stumps me, I hit print, and came back to this message - my guess is nozzle clean fail and this just dismissed the first one... but who knows).
"Nozzle wipe failed. Retry?"
---
Basically - I am fucking tired of "Core One needs your attention!" popups on my phone. Especially for the stupid things like approving a nozzle clean retry, or re-leveling. I am also sick of wasted time thinking the machine is printing when it's not.
Right now, I would absolutely buy a Bambu over anything else in the market for FDM.
The reality is that “just works” is going to outsell just about everything, including high ground on morals and privacy. If competitors want to keep up they’re going to have to offer models that don’t require any tinkering/tweaking even if doing so is possible, supported, and encouraged.
Yeah... The market is still shifting in response to the X1C.
10 years ago... I would manually level my ender, religiously monitor it, and still deal with a decently high failure rate (esp for anything other than PLA). Tuning the printer took easily as much time as I actually spent printing with it. I upgraded all the things, flashed firmware, ran octoprint, etc...
It was like driving - gotta keep the hands on the wheel and maintain alertness at all times. It was an activity that required my attention and focus.
Then I caved and got an X1C in 2023. It's... a really, REALLY good machine.
It's like flying somewhere. I get on the plane, start up a movie or a book, and someone wakes me up when the flight is over. It's a tool that is doing things for me while I do other stuff.
I'm at the point where I'm not really interested in the "middle" all that much. Either go with a Voron and get the "I'm driving" feeling if that's what you want. Or get a Bambu and get chauffeured to successful print.
I've been very happy with my Qidi Q1 Pro. I paid about $350 pre-tax off Amazon almost a year ago (Black Friday). For me, it was the most machine for the lowest cost I could find. It almost fits your desired print volume (245 x 245 x 240), but it is fully enclosed and has a dedicated chamber heater. I have almost exclusively printed ABS at a 60 deg. C chamber temp. It runs open source Klipper firmware, but I'd imagine repairability wouldn't be the best. Best of all, I have not needed any calibration. It seems pretty spot on out of the box.
My Voron is hands down a better printer but also required significantly more investments in components and especially time.
> I am not very familiar with 'slicer' software yet.
and
> durable, temperature/chemical resistant materials such as PC/Nylon/ABS or infused materials.
are a little cart-before-horse. This is like asking what ink-and-paper printer to buy for making complex, multi-format printed books to specific criteria, while admitting that you've not used any form of publishing software or understand any of the non-software processes involved in making a book.
The slicer is by far your most important tool for _effective_ 3D printing with a variety of materials, moreso than CAD or 3D modeling. Get a cheaper, more plug-and-play printer that doesn't meet all of your criteria, and focus on learning how to effectively use its slicer.
Print basic things, experiment, and force and make hands-on mistakes with it on relatively forgiving PLA/PETG. Do these _before_ jumping up to a pricier, fully enclosed machine _and also_ before printing harder-to-use materials, each of which will add new difficulties. You don't want your first hotend blob to happen on a decent machine that you actually like while using a material that's difficult or dangerous to deal with.
A Sovol SV06 or SV08 meets most of your criteria at about 1/3 to 1/2 of your budget; I haven't had the best experiences with their reliability but they fit many of your criteria. Used Creality Enders might be even cheaper depending on where you are, and while also fussy are hackable and repairable to the point of often being used as platforms for entirely different printers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmMW6_7lrlQ
I agree in principle with the above comment, but for some additional context - slicer software has gotten really, really good these days. Especially (sadly) if you don't need open source software.
To make a CNC machining metaphor - Slicer software is basically just your interface to the dials and knobs on the CNC settings for speeds and feeds. There's more settings, because 3d printing is more like if a CNC had a baby with a welder and an injection molding press, only it's injecting and simultaneously welding up a blob of plastic. You're balancing the toolpaths, the temps, the adhesion, and the overall speed all at the same time, all for whatever material you're using.
So it's complex, but these companies have a ton of data and experience in order to make sure their preset settings are damn good out of the box. And these days, they get it right more often than they get it wrong!
Long story short - you should probably just get a Bambu. You'll learn what you need to learn from it, while having good quality output the whole time. If you find out it's not suitable for what you're looking to do, then you can sell it used with decent resale and get the best printer for your specific application.
No its not. Slicer software is just CAM software for 3d printers. It just creates Gcode like any other CAM software. Calling it " basically just your interface to the dials and knobs on the CNC settings for speeds and feeds." shows a deep misunderstanding of operating CNC's in general.
Your manual controls on pretty much all 3d printers suck. But that's because manual operation is considerable far down the priority list. I've never seen one that did jogging other than setting an increment and tapping a touchscreen button to make it move 1 increment.
Every CNC machine I have ever ran did way better with the jogging. Even the ones from the 70's. You set a speed with a knob and then hold down a button. It goes till you let up. Or you use a rotary wheel for fine control.
And don't even get me started on homing. The homing sequence on all the printers I have dealt with is home X and Y before homing Z. Most machinists will be aghast at this as if you are homing all 3 axis's at once you home Z first to get the tool out of the way.
Regarding Z-homing being last - usually endstop positions are on Z-, not Z+, so they do a bit of a hop (2-10mm upwards Z) before the X and Y homing so they don't crash the head. If your Z endstop is on Z-, you can home that first since you know the head is out of the way.
EDIT: to be specific, this is for "bed-slinger" printers, but the concept is the same for fixed height tool head printers (eg where the bed is what's raised and lowered).
After having owned many 3D printers I can recommend Bambu Lab X1C with AMS. It will be a bit over budget but does not matter, you will spend time just printing and not messing with settings or bed leveling, it’s a workhorse and just prints what you tell it to reliably, no tuning or tweaking required. When using official filaments it will automatically recognize them, switch them during print etc.
After maybe 10 years of printing this is what I initially imagined it would be, now its finally there for consumer - I want this part in plastic let’s go
Oh and it’s also fast.
Hmm, I wonder if bambu gives me a cut for the sales pitch, but if not it is also ok - i just have to give credit to good engineering when I see it
PS: no prusa or clones, no creality, dont mess with that nonsense
Personally, I'd still just get the X1C (and I'm not the person above you).
The price difference is low enough now that I'd just take the upgrade. Sure you don't "need" the better screen, better wifi, quieter fan, and default installed hardened nozzle/gear. But they're nice. And OP will want the hardened nozzle/gear if they're printing CAD designed structural parts - PLA is a bad pick for those, you really need to be in the ABS/ASA/PETG/PP materials, and those benefit heavily from the Carbon Fiber/Glass Fiber additions in the filament (PETG-CF and ABS-GF are fantastic).
Back when the difference was closer to $500, sure - get the P1S. But the X1C is frankly a steal at $799. And if you catch the occasional sale, you can get the X1C + AMS combo at literally OPs sticker price ($999).
> I do not need to print multi material models. I would prefer something that doesn't phone home and can work offline. Opensource firmware/software and repairability are important.
Not the OP, but AMS can be useful for loading and unloading filament, as well as automatically continuing a print job when you run out of one spool of the same filament. It's not just for multi-color prints, although that's obviously the primary use case.
OP stated the requirements I quoted above, AMS definitely doesn't make sense, and I don't think Bambu makes sense either.
Before Bambu, Prusa was the 'no tinker just print' brand, though I haven't used one I agree Bambu's taken the lead now, but I think given OP's desire for more openness and repairability etc. Prusa makes more sense.
Fwiw: I have a Prusa Mini, and I'd buy Bambu today, I'm continually tempted by an enclosed model with AMS. But I'm not OP, and I don't think that's right for them with their description.
An AMS is useful just so you can have 4 different filaments ready to go at any time. Doesn't need to be for multi material models. I have an A1 with the AMS lite and a Prusa mk3s, and manually changing materials is a chore.
You are sadly getting a lot of answers completely ignoring your requirements.
A Voron or RatRig are right up your alley. They are highly customizable, buy a kit as a base, then upgrade components as needed to do more complex printing. They are completely open source and repairable with no phoning home or any other shenanigans, the GNU/Linux of 3d printers. If you have CAD and machining experience it should be fairly straight forward.
My Vorons are both extremely reliable, I just hit print for 99% of my stuff and it just works with either auto leveling or static fixed offsets (depends on the Voron chosen). If something doesn’t work out, there is an enormous community with many swappable components and the machines are upgradable year after year, or can be kept in a specific older configuration.
> I am ok assembling the machine and learning how to dial it in.
Get a Prusa Core One kit, or build a Voron.
Bambulab should be off the table for their bait and switch behaviour. AMS is not particularly impressive and very wasteful. Get a Bondtech INDX down the road if you want true multi material printing.
They pushed a firmware update which blocked direct use of your printer without using their proprietary “Bambu Connect” application - because ‘security’.
Also probably AGPL infringement, since the slicer is a fork of priser slicer which is AGPL, and you can't build the slicer from source, because if you could, then you could use the binary plugin for communicating with the printer in other slicers -- but you can't.
The first part of your post sounds almost like an ad for the Bambu Lab P1S. The second part sounds more like the Prusa CORE One kit (build volume is not a perfect match).
I really wouldn't bother buying anything else as a beginner. Pick between these two.
It's a weird thing in 3D printing right now that if you don't have the open source stuff as a requirement you get better print quality and reliability for half the price with Bambu Lab.
> I would prefer something that doesn't phone home and can work offline. Opensource firmware/software and repairability are important.
I built myself a Voron, and it's an amazing learning experience. I learn how things work, and the trade offs. I get to pick and replace the exact parts I want. I design my functional parts knowing exactly the printer's capability. There is something very fascinating about it. You can look at a print, and can tell different issues at a glance because you have seen (and fixed) them while you built and tuned the printer. The majority of 3D Printing quality issue are due to Hardware constructions / trade offs, and not Software (slicer settings..). Without building a printer from scratch, it's hard to tell the root cause.
- Repairability and updatability. Lots of fun mods.
- No phone home / privacy issue like Bambu
I think before going down the rabbit hole, it's best to make sure you have a clear answer for this question: Do you care about the learning / tinkering / optimizing part, or do you care more about "it just works" printing?
- Many recommendations in this thread is for the "it just works" printing case. The top candidates are Bambu, Creality, and Eiegoo. The quality is good for most cases.
- If you're an engineer and into tinkering like me, you would be much happier with a Voron v2. Depending on your effort, you can match Bambu's quality, or _greatly_ exceed it.
Regarding Slicer, don't worry much about it. You can learn one very fast. The top ones are Cura and Orca Slicer. I use them both, and they have pros / cons. Personally on my Voron, a well tuned Cura profile yield better result. But Cura is missing one important feature: it can't limit the speed based on Flow Rate.
Another quick tip:
- Take the advertised number with a grant of salt. For example, many printers advertised 600 mm/s print speed. The mechanical frame may be able to handle 600 mm/s, but the Hot End is the limit of the build (e.g. it can't melt material fast enough, friction, the ability of extruder motor to quickly change speed, etc).
I bought a Creality Ender 3 V2 a little over a year ago, spent 6 months printing things and fiddling with it and finally had it with how primitive it is.
If you have the time and patience for tinkering, the Voron is great.
I built a Voron 2.4 and Voron Trident this year. Both printers are designed with automatic bed leveling as a base feature and I modded them right from the start to have automatic z offset calculation as well with a fancy probe. With these 2 features I have print it and forget it operation 99% of the time with no issues. There have also been some open source multi filament/material projects that you can add to the printers since you have full control of the hardware and software.
I love the idea of building a printer, but I know that my attention span is limited on these sorts of things. As in, I’ll be reliably obsessed until it’s done and tuned, and then I’ll forget everything until the next time I want to use it.
So my big question, for someone who’s owned one a while: is the printer ever “done”?
Is there a point after which it “just works”? Or is it always going to be more like “it’s great! I just need to tweak the blah blah setting every time and retighten the frobnitz every 3 prints, no big deal really!”
I always see the quote about “if you like printERS, build, but if you like printING, just buy one” - but nobody talks about the timescale on the fiddling and whether it ever stops.
(currently own a Prusa mk3s I built as a kit and it’s been pretty solid as a tool!)
I avoid buying 2d printers because they are so maintenance heavy... I use a 3D printer in a shared makerspace, where whoever has the most avialability takes on maintenance issues when they arise.
The Prusa mk4's we use are extremely reliable; most problems come down to users doing dumb stuff... or at least, doing risky stuff and not monitoring the print.
I find that I usually have some /kind/ of print I'm making (say, very hollow terrain pieces for tabletop wargames) get my printer settings dialed in over the course of a few failed prints, and then can print more of that kind of thing very reliably. In other words, good printer settings are project dependent, but can usually transfer reliably across simlar projects. And then I don't have to think much about the printer - it just does its thing.
> So my big question, for someone who’s owned one a while: is the printer ever “done”?
The printer is never "done" :). But there are plenty check points where it's "pretty good".
For example, here is my rough timeline:
- I sourced the parts and built it. Took around 4 weekends.
- The initial tuning took a while (like a month). But this was very fun. I tried almost all the Slicers. I fixed constructions issues (square angle, deracking, belt tuning, ...). After this step, the machine becomes "good enough". I can print various parts in the house and I was satisfied with the quality.
- I started pushing for speed and redid many parts of the printer. I learned about various limitations (like Flow Rate is the real limit for speed). This phase last a long time for me (like a year). I ended up replacing like 75% of the printed parts with CNC parts. During this time, the printer is still online and printable.
- I didn't modded the printer much after that. I found my sweet spot between speed / quality. I want to mod it with a 120W Hot End heater to increase the Flow Rate (already bought it), but it's not quite a necessary thing. It's more for fun. The tinkering goes on as long as you feel it's fun. But I wouldn't say you _need_ to tinker to _keep_ it working.
> Is there a point after which it “just works”? Or is it always going to be more like “it’s great! I just need to tweak the blah blah setting every time and retighten the frobnitz every 3 prints, no big deal really!”
After the first tuning phase, the Voron was "just works" for me. Or at least, if there was any issue, I could immediately tell what went wrong. And no retightening needed so far except one time the printed feet cracked (that was the reason I switched to CNC aluminum parts).
Edit: I built a large Voron (350mm), and it is really _heavy_ (almost full metal in my case). That's why the printed feet cracked. Beside that, maintenance is almost zero. I don't even wash the spring steel bed. Just click print and walk away.
I picked up an Ultimaker 2+ with 15,000 hours on it at an ewaste junk shop for $100. Really was expecting it to need some TLC, but I plugged it in, leveled the bed, and it spit out an absolutely passable benchy in a couple hours. Cura (Ultimaker's slicer) isn't open source, but it is free, fairly unobtrusive, and works fine. The printer itself isn't connected to anything but mains power, and loads gcode from an SD card.
I'm going to make an unpopular suggestion. Have you considered using a service that will print and ship to you, like CraftCloud?
Depending on volume, your total cost would likely be lower. I know you mentioned privacy concerns so this may not be an option. But it significantly simplifies your work, letting you focus on the parts themselves.
A counter argument is that the short turn around time with local 3D printing is absolutely a feature.
I've printed small stuff just to get the fitting right, before I finished the part with fillets, etc.
Also there is lots of small fun stuff, small fixes you'd never do with a 3d printer if you had to order prints online.
Example, I designed a printed a M8 nut cap with room for the 3mm sharp rod sticking out. I could probably have gotten a metal file to mill down the sharp edge, but it was hard to get at, and this gave a nice finish.
Even if you buy a printer you should be aware of all the services. It might be more expensive but it opens up a lot more options too. Want a SLS print instead - they have it. Want to mill it from steel and then bend it - they can do that for you. Want to make something out of solid wood, no problem. Need a lot of parts fast - they have many printers and overnight shipping (at extra charge).
Sure it costs more, but if you will only do it once that is still cheap. And some of the things they can do for you are not safe to do at home.
I, too, once looked into this, but for anything trivial you immediately exceed the cost of just buying a Bambu Lab A1 mini.
So you might as well buy that and have a lower-spec iteration, because you're going to run into all sorts of design problems before you get to finer constraints.
Excellent print quality out of the box
Automatic bed leveling and calibration
Very user-friendly with great software
Compact size, perfect for beginners
Creality K1 Max (~$599)
300x300x300mm build volume
Fast printing speeds (up to 600mm/s)
Auto-leveling and enclosed design
Good balance of features and price
Prusa MINI+ (~$429 kit, $529 assembled)
Exceptional reliability and support
Magnetic flexible bed
Excellent community and documentation
Great for learning and consistent results
There are fully open projects like Voron or RatRig, and sellers of DIY kits based on them. Potentially a lot of work unless you're interested in 3D printing itself as a hobby rather than as a tool.
Prusa Core One would be a bit more complete OOTB. It is 220mm in the smallest axis (Y) though. Slicer and firmware are open source, but the hardware is not (unlike previous Prusa printers).
Bambu gives you the same capability for much less, but the firmware is not open source (third party open source firmware does exist). I believe the stock firmware also has to "phone home" at least once before it can be used offline.
Even cheaper are less-well known Chinese companies, like Qidi. Firmware is usually a proprietary fork of Klipper or other open source projects; some people have had success flashing the mainline version.
Get a bambu, dont put it online, use the SD card or lan for transfer... yes they're Chinese and have run roughshod over their contemporaries with respect to IP, yet it's the most die hard printer you'll ever buy. I own 5.
Bambu X1C: I can recommend the Bambu X1C. It would be my printer of choice. In addition to bed-leveling it has flow calibration and AI detection. With the H2S release prices on the X1C are coming down quickly.
Elegoo Centauri Carbon: I know lots of people will recommend the P1S but this printer has 95% of the features at half the cost. Also extruder temp goes higher (320C), for more exotic materials.
I bought a Centauri Carbon due to the pretty much unbeatable pricing and it has worked well for an old roll of Amazon Basics PLA, using it off-line by copying files onto it using a flash drive. Waiting for https://github.com/OpenCentauri/OpenCentauri to pan out before I'll consider putting it on my network.
Looking into GF infused PLA, or PETG for come up-coming projects, and wondering how things will work out with their "Filament Switching System" which was promised for Q3.
If money hadn't been a concern, I'd've chosen a Prusa XL w/ multiple print heads.
I hate to say this. Bambu A1. I'm operating a farm of mixed plumage: 20 Prusa's, 12 Creality K1s and 24 Bambus. Of all of those the Bambus are by far the least troublesome and I would definitely recommend those to a beginner. That said, Bambu is a crap company and they can't be trusted not to do a rugpull sooner or later. We don't have them connected to wifi for that reason alone and tbh it doesn't really add anything to the experience. I like the fact that they're all stand-alone and as long as the power is up the printers are printing. In the last year we've processed about 3000 Kg total with these. In some more detail:
- The Prusa's are real workhorses. They are not the fastest, but they're expensive and they break. But you can always fix them and the degree to which you can tinker with them (especially while they're running) is much higher than the others. I've made a couple of custom ones (one 1x1 meter x 25 cm build volume, five more that are the regular width and length but 60 cm height), with adopted firmware. It's an insanely flexible platform. If you can think of it, handle a hex key and do some minor firmware hacking you can probably make it.
- The K1s... well. Initially we were very impressed. Got a couple to test with, decided they work and ordered 10 more. After a few days the first extruder broke. Gears just snapped their teeth right off. Turns out the extruder gears are plastic. So, ordered upgraded extruders. Next, one after the other, power supplies dying. After that print fans, Then cpu fans. They also had many screws loose right from the factory, we had a whole inspection list made just to structurally address all of the shitty stuff that would be wrong.
- The Bambus. We plugged them in. They work. They still do.
People in this thread are mentioning the SOVOL, if you have the money, that's probably the best printer. But I'd get a couple of Bambus instead and get that many more kilos pushed through. At 200 bucks for the mini and 350 or so for the big A1 it's insane value for money.
It's nice for simple stuff, but wouldn't recommend for anything needing precision. In the beginning it was laying out perfect layers, but after 6 months just lost it. Been doing every possible maintenance stuff and it just doesn't go back.
I've had a number of different printers, and the one I like the most [by far] is the Bambu P1S. It doesn't hit your desire to avoid the cloud, but as a machine it is top notch quality, and very reliable. It requires far less babysitting and tweaking than something like a Creality. If you just want to print things and know that most of the time it Just Works, they are a great tool for that.
none of the printers mentioned going to meet any of your requirements.
Prusa isn't fully opensource, but has the worst enclosed chamber printer imo.
Bambu isn't open source in the slightest (beside the slicer).
You are never going to print PC on a bambu either way, at least not Pure PC. Blends, sure, you need at least 100c chambers for pure PC.
diy kits are the way to go, but it is going take you a LONG time. a voron, ratrig, or annex k3 are your best bets with the requirements you want. each kit has their weaknesses, and most of them, are going to require upgrades from their BOM.
I'll second the call for checking out smaller companies with Ender clones and similar like Sovol and Qidi; you can find refurbed models like Creality K1's for $200+ off if you're not averse.
Regarding slicer software, Ultimaker Cura is great for beginners, Orca Slicer has a slightly steeper learning curve but they both have their pros and cons such as different support generation algorithms, having an alternative when something doesn't seem to print right with one.
If you want good prints and only care about the prints, get Bambu P1S. If you want to tinker with the machine and have a lot of free time on your hands then Prusa. although Prsusa starting to close up it's walls like Bambu.
Prusa is getting tired of investing R&D and then having someone else copy that. Someone else without an R&D budget can make things cheaper because they don't have that budget.
They are most tired of investing in R&D in the open and then having some company do a patent in their country. The company then sues them for infringement.
I do repair and modernizing of cars/motorcycles/dirtbike/ATVs, that kind of stuff. Fuel injection conversions are something I specialize in. That is why I would like durable/resistant materials as an option. I won't be trying to earn with it intentionally, unless I stumble upon a niche. There are already more than a couple 3d printing services around here, no need to compete there.
I can do what I need to do in CAD, design my own parts, etc. Other than the above, I'll use it for gifts, stuff around the home, rasPi and ESP32 electronic projects with home assistant, misc. enclosures, etc. I have a broad set of use cases but running production 24/7/365 isn't something I see myself doing unless I stumble upon a niche as I mentioned.
> Fuel injection conversions are something I specialize in.
What kind of temperatures/pressures/chemical exposure are you expecting for your prints? You should probably start there, check for 3d printing materials that can actually handle those requirements, and then filter for printing technologies that fit the bill. I would imagine that would already break it down a lot.
How many parts are we talking? I sounds to me like you are the perfect candidate for send-cut-send or one of the many many other services that take your CAD and build parts. You get to choose from materials your printer couldn't do (not matter what you have something cannot be done)
Low volume stuff, single digits of parts, unless I find that niche, and i might outsource then. I'll keep the send-cut-send type stuff in mind. There are variations to certain parts that I'd like to iterate on, for example, intake runner lengths, diameters and shapes, various adapters/converters, panels/covers, etc. Plus, it's fun to do things yourself and learn along the way. It's not just about the end result.
Using a service would be better for a final part in a better material for the sake of longevity, not just 3d printed either, but cnc'd aluminum for example. Plastics can only go so far, but for short durations in some stressful situations, like intake manifolds, they can give you information. Having a printer in house will let me prototype to verify functionality of some engine parts, and being able to print in resistant materials will let me make final parts of less stressed parts in areas exposed to fuels, oils, etc.
if youre interested in repair and solid part design, you may also want to consider SLA design printers. 4k panels are super cheap and its easier to work with strong resins (but messy) than eg, ABS heated bed and fume enclosures
I have both a resin and FDM printer. The FDM is hands down easier to work with than dealing with resin. FDM ABS is also a far better material than ABS-like resin. (Disclosure: I've never tried a proper industrial resin from LOCTITE or something.)
Great answers exist, but will be ephemeral. In other words this is a journey.
Pick what your into now and ask the question.
What's a good gun for sub $1000?
What's a good computer for sub $1000?
What's a good sewing machine for sub $1000?
First up: If you were a machinist and can model in CAD (especially constraint based, not mesh based), slicers are trivial. You'll spend a bit learning about materials & how to deal with their inadequacies by fiddling with support structures, but it's really not an obstacle.
If OSS firmware and repairability matter to you, prepare to invest a lot of time fixing and improving your tooling. (But... if you've machined before, you likely know that drill :)
The Sovol SV06 is almost there in terms of build volume - and it clocks in at $350, so it might be a good starting point. The Voron 2.4 is 350 mm^3 and almost $1000, also a decent machine. Elegoo's Neptune 4 straddles the edge of open source - it's a branded klipper build.
All of them are enclosable (i.e. you can buy enclosures, or build one)
From what I hear, the Voron's the most likely fit for your material requirements. (But, worth keeping in mind - an alternate path is a cheapo PLA printer for prototyping, and then shipping of files to a printing service. Depends on what you plan to do)
Printable PC/Nylon/ABS are not the same as the injection molded equivalents, you may want to research this more if that is an issue. I've printed every material under the sun trying to chase various material properties, and I usually just come back to printing in PLA due to it's excellent mechanical properties (up to a certain temp), excellent layer adhesion, and near 100% success rate. When you stray from from PLA, you will start running into warping, shrink, layer adhesion, and other issues. If you need parts in PC/Nylon/ABS, get the design dialed in in PLA (I as almost all others recommend bambulab), and then send the part to FirstCut/Protolabs to have it machined out of whatever you want.
At that build volume I think you need to expand your budget slightly. The Prusa MK4S is on a deep discount right now but is just short of those numbers you listed.
Even the Core One just barely misses.
Prusa XL hits your target but is twice your budget.
Also honestly build volume can be a little overrated unless you're printing helmets. You can make things in smaller parts. More build volume brings with it more print issues you have to deal with. But also yeah look at a Voron maybe or the SV08.
If you're new to printing, start smaller anyway. If you've done machining you know there's a materials learning curve and the same thing applies here to the nth degree. Print material, volume, orientation, density, first-layer adhesion, temperature, etc all are things you will have to account for and will affect your print quality/strength. You want to learn about these things in smaller prints that waste less time and material rather than more/larger.
Buy a bambu P1s, a 0.4mm hardened nozzle for CF filaments, and maybe a filament dryer. You'll have a tool to spit parts out instead of a hobby in and of itself[0]. Bambu isn't the least evil company, but it's honestly just that good.
Can work offline, but you'll probably need to block it at the firewall level if you care enough about privacy.
Just buy the X1C. It's the best printer at your size range and price category (I own this, a Prusa Core One, and several creality machines).
Frankly - spend the extra 100 dollars and get the Combo with the AMS 2. Even if you don't want to do multi-color prints, it saves more than enough time switching filaments quickly to make it worth it if you're printing with any regularity.
This will let you use a 3d printer like it's a tool, and as someone who is printing CAD designed structural parts - it excels at just popping out decent parts, in all of the materials you want for structural parts.
Lock it into LAN mode. Despite claims to the contrary it's quite repairable (ex - I just replaced the hotbed on mine because a lightning strike damaged the torque sensors [side note - it fucking finished the print on resume when my power came back up - even without working torque sensors on the z axis]). Parts are available, they aren't outrageously priced, and the instructions are plenty clear.
Personally - I would strongly recommend this path. Understand what "good" looks like in the space before branching out into other requirements.
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Option #2:
Build a Voron Kit. It's going to take you several days of full time assembly, It'll cost more for the same quality, it's going to have some maddening "dial it in" moments.
But you get a machine that you fully understand.
You'll need to be very comfortable with both hardware and software for the assembly. If you want anything like the remote control & monitoring of corporate printers, you'll need to be comfortable hosting your own services and exposing things on the public internet (ex: tailscale/wireguard or just plain public).
Personally - DO THIS! but don't do it first. First get an X1C and understand what good printing looks like.
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Everything not a Voron probably isn't really "open" in the sense that you want. (Sure - you can flash a lot of machines. You still own that machine - it doesn't magically become higher quality, and most things run a Marlin/Klipper variant anyways)
Everything not a Bambu is a step backwards in print quality and ecosystem experience.
The middle sucks on all most fronts except price, but 1k is enough to get the better machines.
The Ender 3 V2 is very solid and repeatable, but loud. I spent more money making mine quiet than I did buying it. You can literally get Enders free or for very little in classifieds. Bambu has a very good marketing department.
There are cheap VORON kits that fits the budget and other needs, although they come with a bunch of tinkering. But you can't beat the open source and repairability aspect.
If you don't care about business practices and general privacy concerns, Bambu.
If you want a large printer that's decent for tinkering, Sovol SV08.
If you want relatively good support and to support a company that has a history of giving back, Prusa.
If you want something cheap with a lot of features that tend to be more high end, Elegoo Centuri Carbon.
If you just want something cheap that's arguably incredible value with an active community, Creality Ender 3 V3 KE.
> If you don't care about business practices and general privacy concerns, Bambu.
While I agree, I think it's heavily underselling Bambulab printers in terms of UX and print quality, they are the absolute best in the market and by a mile.
+1. Bambu is the difference between 'my hobby is 3d printers' vs 'my hobby is 3d printing'. The damn thing sits in the garage idle for months and then it just prints a whole spool of stuff perfectly without even a drop of oil (which it asked for in between plates, I'll grant it that).
I got a Bambu A1 Mini a few weeks ago and it's practically easier than 2D printing. Printed a whole tabletop game that I played with friends, and replacement parts for a gun that held up at the range.
Also given what you've said about privacy, that probably eliminates Bambu and possibly the Centuri Carbon (not sure). The SV08 can be ran offline, but it does try to phone home (3rd party) whenever it's online. Prusa might be your best bet of these when it comes to privacy.
Prusa is by far the most "open" probably with the SV08 second because it uses so much from the open source community (it's Voron inspired).
If you have a lot of time to spend, you could build a Voron, but I would not recommend that to anyone new to 3D printing.
It's incredibly frustrating that the majority of devices today report usage to the mothership without the user's consent. Does firewalling the device cause any issues? A printer (of any kind) should not reach the open Internet, period.
All of these printers can be run completely offline, although then you obviously lose any network-related features such as sending prints over the network. I know that at least the Bambu printers (and I assume most others) can also be run in LAN-only mode, where they only work with devices on the same network. In this mode you could definitely firewall them without causing issues. The main features you lose by being in LAN-only mode are the phone app and being able to access the printer from off your network.
I second this. I run an A1 on a separate IoT wifi network that doesn't have outbound connectivity and using nftables rules for forwarding can send prints from my normal network with minimal fuss.
I did have to play around and use orcaslicer to get the printer set up using the network printing and camera feed working.
The one issue I do have is that it seems I would need to connect the printer to a internet enabled Network to get firmware updates, because the firmware version I have is ironically the one before they enabled SD card updating lol.
Back to the original question, I've had this printer for about a month and have been printing virtually non-stop with very minimal complaints. Coming from an ender 3 it is absolutely night and day in terms of ease of setup and general usage.
can't you use something like this? https://octoprint.org/
i have no idea if it works with modern ones but my "old" Ender 3 plays nice with it
Octoprint is still a great piece of software that works with most printers, but it's running into a dead end where streaming G Code over the USB Serial emulation isn't fast enough on the newest generation of printers to keep them printing at their full speed.
Its not much to replace the SV08's OS and fork of klipper with more open source and standard options.
Of these options, I'd recommend the SV08, provided you are okay with some mods essentially being required for consistent, reliable use.
These being:
- Eddy sensor (for faster bed meshing, eddy-ng addon for Klipper adds auto z-offset)
- Mainline Klipper/Kalico (required for eddy functionality)
- Some motherboard fan replacement mod (the default is tiny, noisy, and always-on)
Of the others listed:
- Bambu printers and the Elegoo Centauri Carbon have locked-down firmware (possibly with hidden license violations).
- I think the only Prusa machine with that build volume is the XL, which is out of the price range
- The Creality Ender 3 V3 KE is okay, but the build volume is 220x220x240mm
This is if you like tinkering with printers. I gave away my Wanhao and bought a Bambu, and I haven't thought about the printer since. Now I just print.
Ditto here with a Qidi. It used to be an advanced test in mechanical competence to print a benchy. Leveling the bed and keeping the nozzle clear were beyond my skill level. With the Bambu it mostly just works. 3D printing went from a dancing pig to one of my favorite tools.
Qidi turned around and offered a Bambu competitor, and I hear it's good. This industry is evolving as quickly as PCs in the eighties.
Our makerspace at the office has a few prusa mk4's, and they're really great machines.
Bambu P1S, no question. Enclosed with filter for ABS fumes etc. Personally I've only used their A1, but it's the best printer I've ever used by far, and it's the first one that you can treat like a paper printer: plop it down, ignore it til you need to print, hit print and assume it works with no supervision. An absolute joy. It's also FAST compared to last gen printers.
They do have a bunch of cloud service BS and phoning home that runs afoul of the HN spirit, but there's a LAN mode that allows you to send prints from LAN without opening up to the wider internet. If that's still too restrictive, you can always do direct SD card transfers via sneakernet.
Software might be too closed for you, IDK if there are jailbreaks. Repairability is possible but fiddly – akin to current gen car engines, rather than 70s types. They're very popular printers, I've only needed to open the head once, and there were plenty of YT teardown videos to help.
The Bambu slicer is good. They've got niceties for basic operations like snapping to bed or scaling up/down by a few percent. I believe it's based on cura slicer, which is also excellent.
P1S is at the midpoint of your budget. Their next model up is $1200, depending on your flexibility. Might have some value if you're doing more obscure materials. Didn't realize how cheap the enclosed ones had gotten. I've got half a mind to upgrade myself now....
> Enclosed with filter for ABS fumes etc.
I agree that the Bambu printers are as good as it gets for plug-and-play printing, but I wouldn't trust the tiny carbon filter for toxic fumes in an indoor environment.
The better VOC filters use a larger amount of activated carbon and they recirculate a high volume of chamber air inside the chamber.
Activated carbon also needs to be replaced over time as it loses capacity to adsorb more VOCs.
Their printers are also not sealed well. See for example @CanuckCreator on YouTube where he does a teardown, revealing large holes.
This is not the way to go with toxic fumes or how to get good ABS printing performance.
Does it have to be sealed? Thinking of fume hoods which aren't but are ok. Can you link the vid?
Except this person cares about privacy and openness, and Bambu is an awful VC funded push everyone out by undercutting prices and then enshittify company.
To all the people in the comments popping off about how "it just works". I have a Makerbot 2 running Sailfish, it's "just worked" for 12 years. I haven't replaced a single part on it. Ever since I started using the Prusa Slicer I've got dimensionally accurate parts every time I hit print. At least from my PoV "the printer just working" is a solved problem and has been for a long time now. PLA, PETG, PCTG, TPU. No issues with anything and I've been able to drive it at about 150% the speed I could with the original firmware/software.
Their machines are also excellent.
I guess. Having just bought a Prusa Core One because of concerns about the direction Bambu is headed...
I regret it. Hands down. It is absolutely worse from a practical standpoint than the much older X1C I have, and the absolutely maddening part is that the "worse" bits are mostly software related.
You can hate on Bambu all you want (and frankly - a good chunk of it is well earned, but some is exaggerated or false) - but it feels like they use their products, and they care enough to fix the rough spots.
So while I like the ideals of Prusa... I can't say I'm super impressed with their latest offerings. Bambu's ecosystem is justly WILDLY better. The slicer is less annoying, the printer is more consistent, the monitoring tools are better, and most importantly - when I hit print, it just fucking does it.
I've had the Core One for less than 3 months, and I'm already into the double digits for number times I hit print and I come back 5 hours later to find.... it hasn't even damn well started the job. Instead...
"nozzle wipe failed. Retry?"
"different filament is loaded. unload? Select No to start print" (side note - it's just fucking wrong here, the filament from the correct MMU slot IS loaded, I just did it manually at the printer because if I don't and I switch materials - the next print is a guaranteed failure. The MMU is a whole different clusterfuck of bad software design, cool 3d printed engineering, bad software design)
"Nozzle clean failed. Retry?"
"The bed appears to be unlevel. Perform leveling?"
"Bed heating disabled due to inactivity" (This one still stumps me, I hit print, and came back to this message - my guess is nozzle clean fail and this just dismissed the first one... but who knows).
"Nozzle wipe failed. Retry?"
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Basically - I am fucking tired of "Core One needs your attention!" popups on my phone. Especially for the stupid things like approving a nozzle clean retry, or re-leveling. I am also sick of wasted time thinking the machine is printing when it's not.
Right now, I would absolutely buy a Bambu over anything else in the market for FDM.
The reality is that “just works” is going to outsell just about everything, including high ground on morals and privacy. If competitors want to keep up they’re going to have to offer models that don’t require any tinkering/tweaking even if doing so is possible, supported, and encouraged.
Yeah... The market is still shifting in response to the X1C.
10 years ago... I would manually level my ender, religiously monitor it, and still deal with a decently high failure rate (esp for anything other than PLA). Tuning the printer took easily as much time as I actually spent printing with it. I upgraded all the things, flashed firmware, ran octoprint, etc...
It was like driving - gotta keep the hands on the wheel and maintain alertness at all times. It was an activity that required my attention and focus.
Then I caved and got an X1C in 2023. It's... a really, REALLY good machine.
It's like flying somewhere. I get on the plane, start up a movie or a book, and someone wakes me up when the flight is over. It's a tool that is doing things for me while I do other stuff.
I'm at the point where I'm not really interested in the "middle" all that much. Either go with a Voron and get the "I'm driving" feeling if that's what you want. Or get a Bambu and get chauffeured to successful print.
The 3D printing community is really two different groups: people who like to actually print things and people who like to tinker with their printer.
I've been very happy with my Qidi Q1 Pro. I paid about $350 pre-tax off Amazon almost a year ago (Black Friday). For me, it was the most machine for the lowest cost I could find. It almost fits your desired print volume (245 x 245 x 240), but it is fully enclosed and has a dedicated chamber heater. I have almost exclusively printed ABS at a 60 deg. C chamber temp. It runs open source Klipper firmware, but I'd imagine repairability wouldn't be the best. Best of all, I have not needed any calibration. It seems pretty spot on out of the box.
My Voron is hands down a better printer but also required significantly more investments in components and especially time.
> I am not very familiar with 'slicer' software yet.
and
> durable, temperature/chemical resistant materials such as PC/Nylon/ABS or infused materials.
are a little cart-before-horse. This is like asking what ink-and-paper printer to buy for making complex, multi-format printed books to specific criteria, while admitting that you've not used any form of publishing software or understand any of the non-software processes involved in making a book.
The slicer is by far your most important tool for _effective_ 3D printing with a variety of materials, moreso than CAD or 3D modeling. Get a cheaper, more plug-and-play printer that doesn't meet all of your criteria, and focus on learning how to effectively use its slicer.
Print basic things, experiment, and force and make hands-on mistakes with it on relatively forgiving PLA/PETG. Do these _before_ jumping up to a pricier, fully enclosed machine _and also_ before printing harder-to-use materials, each of which will add new difficulties. You don't want your first hotend blob to happen on a decent machine that you actually like while using a material that's difficult or dangerous to deal with.
A Sovol SV06 or SV08 meets most of your criteria at about 1/3 to 1/2 of your budget; I haven't had the best experiences with their reliability but they fit many of your criteria. Used Creality Enders might be even cheaper depending on where you are, and while also fussy are hackable and repairable to the point of often being used as platforms for entirely different printers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmMW6_7lrlQ
I agree in principle with the above comment, but for some additional context - slicer software has gotten really, really good these days. Especially (sadly) if you don't need open source software.
To make a CNC machining metaphor - Slicer software is basically just your interface to the dials and knobs on the CNC settings for speeds and feeds. There's more settings, because 3d printing is more like if a CNC had a baby with a welder and an injection molding press, only it's injecting and simultaneously welding up a blob of plastic. You're balancing the toolpaths, the temps, the adhesion, and the overall speed all at the same time, all for whatever material you're using.
So it's complex, but these companies have a ton of data and experience in order to make sure their preset settings are damn good out of the box. And these days, they get it right more often than they get it wrong!
Long story short - you should probably just get a Bambu. You'll learn what you need to learn from it, while having good quality output the whole time. If you find out it's not suitable for what you're looking to do, then you can sell it used with decent resale and get the best printer for your specific application.
No its not. Slicer software is just CAM software for 3d printers. It just creates Gcode like any other CAM software. Calling it " basically just your interface to the dials and knobs on the CNC settings for speeds and feeds." shows a deep misunderstanding of operating CNC's in general.
Your manual controls on pretty much all 3d printers suck. But that's because manual operation is considerable far down the priority list. I've never seen one that did jogging other than setting an increment and tapping a touchscreen button to make it move 1 increment.
Every CNC machine I have ever ran did way better with the jogging. Even the ones from the 70's. You set a speed with a knob and then hold down a button. It goes till you let up. Or you use a rotary wheel for fine control.
And don't even get me started on homing. The homing sequence on all the printers I have dealt with is home X and Y before homing Z. Most machinists will be aghast at this as if you are homing all 3 axis's at once you home Z first to get the tool out of the way.
Regarding Z-homing being last - usually endstop positions are on Z-, not Z+, so they do a bit of a hop (2-10mm upwards Z) before the X and Y homing so they don't crash the head. If your Z endstop is on Z-, you can home that first since you know the head is out of the way.
EDIT: to be specific, this is for "bed-slinger" printers, but the concept is the same for fixed height tool head printers (eg where the bed is what's raised and lowered).
After having owned many 3D printers I can recommend Bambu Lab X1C with AMS. It will be a bit over budget but does not matter, you will spend time just printing and not messing with settings or bed leveling, it’s a workhorse and just prints what you tell it to reliably, no tuning or tweaking required. When using official filaments it will automatically recognize them, switch them during print etc.
After maybe 10 years of printing this is what I initially imagined it would be, now its finally there for consumer - I want this part in plastic let’s go
Oh and it’s also fast.
Hmm, I wonder if bambu gives me a cut for the sales pitch, but if not it is also ok - i just have to give credit to good engineering when I see it
PS: no prusa or clones, no creality, dont mess with that nonsense
In this case the P1S without AMS is a better starting point.
Add an AMS later if valuable.
The step up from P1S to X1C isn't worth it for someone with a budget who doesn't need the incremental improvements of the X1C.
Personally, I'd still just get the X1C (and I'm not the person above you).
The price difference is low enough now that I'd just take the upgrade. Sure you don't "need" the better screen, better wifi, quieter fan, and default installed hardened nozzle/gear. But they're nice. And OP will want the hardened nozzle/gear if they're printing CAD designed structural parts - PLA is a bad pick for those, you really need to be in the ABS/ASA/PETG/PP materials, and those benefit heavily from the Carbon Fiber/Glass Fiber additions in the filament (PETG-CF and ABS-GF are fantastic).
Back when the difference was closer to $500, sure - get the P1S. But the X1C is frankly a steal at $799. And if you catch the occasional sale, you can get the X1C + AMS combo at literally OPs sticker price ($999).
> I do not need to print multi material models. I would prefer something that doesn't phone home and can work offline. Opensource firmware/software and repairability are important.
And your suggestion is Bambu with AMS?
Not the OP, but AMS can be useful for loading and unloading filament, as well as automatically continuing a print job when you run out of one spool of the same filament. It's not just for multi-color prints, although that's obviously the primary use case.
Does OP want to print, or do they want to tinker?
Bambu make excellent machines. There is nothing comparable out of the box, especially at their price points.
OP stated the requirements I quoted above, AMS definitely doesn't make sense, and I don't think Bambu makes sense either.
Before Bambu, Prusa was the 'no tinker just print' brand, though I haven't used one I agree Bambu's taken the lead now, but I think given OP's desire for more openness and repairability etc. Prusa makes more sense.
Fwiw: I have a Prusa Mini, and I'd buy Bambu today, I'm continually tempted by an enclosed model with AMS. But I'm not OP, and I don't think that's right for them with their description.
An AMS is useful just so you can have 4 different filaments ready to go at any time. Doesn't need to be for multi material models. I have an A1 with the AMS lite and a Prusa mk3s, and manually changing materials is a chore.
You are sadly getting a lot of answers completely ignoring your requirements.
A Voron or RatRig are right up your alley. They are highly customizable, buy a kit as a base, then upgrade components as needed to do more complex printing. They are completely open source and repairable with no phoning home or any other shenanigans, the GNU/Linux of 3d printers. If you have CAD and machining experience it should be fairly straight forward.
My Vorons are both extremely reliable, I just hit print for 99% of my stuff and it just works with either auto leveling or static fixed offsets (depends on the Voron chosen). If something doesn’t work out, there is an enormous community with many swappable components and the machines are upgradable year after year, or can be kept in a specific older configuration.
> I am ok assembling the machine and learning how to dial it in.
Get a Prusa Core One kit, or build a Voron.
Bambulab should be off the table for their bait and switch behaviour. AMS is not particularly impressive and very wasteful. Get a Bondtech INDX down the road if you want true multi material printing.
What is their bait and switch behavior? I'm not familiar with anything shady they've done but am very curious as I've had my eye on a Bambu.
They pushed a firmware update which blocked direct use of your printer without using their proprietary “Bambu Connect” application - because ‘security’.
Mind clarifying how that's bad? It sounds just like a driver or something similar.
Authorization through bambulab servers.
Also probably AGPL infringement, since the slicer is a fork of priser slicer which is AGPL, and you can't build the slicer from source, because if you could, then you could use the binary plugin for communicating with the printer in other slicers -- but you can't.
It's pretty blatant IMO.
But it's also a printer that just works.
The first part of your post sounds almost like an ad for the Bambu Lab P1S. The second part sounds more like the Prusa CORE One kit (build volume is not a perfect match).
I really wouldn't bother buying anything else as a beginner. Pick between these two.
It's a weird thing in 3D printing right now that if you don't have the open source stuff as a requirement you get better print quality and reliability for half the price with Bambu Lab.
> I would prefer something that doesn't phone home and can work offline. Opensource firmware/software and repairability are important.
I built myself a Voron, and it's an amazing learning experience. I learn how things work, and the trade offs. I get to pick and replace the exact parts I want. I design my functional parts knowing exactly the printer's capability. There is something very fascinating about it. You can look at a print, and can tell different issues at a glance because you have seen (and fixed) them while you built and tuned the printer. The majority of 3D Printing quality issue are due to Hardware constructions / trade offs, and not Software (slicer settings..). Without building a printer from scratch, it's hard to tell the root cause.
https://vorondesign.com/voron2.4
- Fully open sourced
- Repairability and updatability. Lots of fun mods.
- No phone home / privacy issue like Bambu
I think before going down the rabbit hole, it's best to make sure you have a clear answer for this question: Do you care about the learning / tinkering / optimizing part, or do you care more about "it just works" printing?
- Many recommendations in this thread is for the "it just works" printing case. The top candidates are Bambu, Creality, and Eiegoo. The quality is good for most cases.
- If you're an engineer and into tinkering like me, you would be much happier with a Voron v2. Depending on your effort, you can match Bambu's quality, or _greatly_ exceed it.
Regarding Slicer, don't worry much about it. You can learn one very fast. The top ones are Cura and Orca Slicer. I use them both, and they have pros / cons. Personally on my Voron, a well tuned Cura profile yield better result. But Cura is missing one important feature: it can't limit the speed based on Flow Rate.
Another quick tip:
- Take the advertised number with a grant of salt. For example, many printers advertised 600 mm/s print speed. The mechanical frame may be able to handle 600 mm/s, but the Hot End is the limit of the build (e.g. it can't melt material fast enough, friction, the ability of extruder motor to quickly change speed, etc).
Hope you have a great time!
I bought a Creality Ender 3 V2 a little over a year ago, spent 6 months printing things and fiddling with it and finally had it with how primitive it is.
If you have the time and patience for tinkering, the Voron is great. I built a Voron 2.4 and Voron Trident this year. Both printers are designed with automatic bed leveling as a base feature and I modded them right from the start to have automatic z offset calculation as well with a fancy probe. With these 2 features I have print it and forget it operation 99% of the time with no issues. There have also been some open source multi filament/material projects that you can add to the printers since you have full control of the hardware and software.
I love the idea of building a printer, but I know that my attention span is limited on these sorts of things. As in, I’ll be reliably obsessed until it’s done and tuned, and then I’ll forget everything until the next time I want to use it.
So my big question, for someone who’s owned one a while: is the printer ever “done”?
Is there a point after which it “just works”? Or is it always going to be more like “it’s great! I just need to tweak the blah blah setting every time and retighten the frobnitz every 3 prints, no big deal really!”
I always see the quote about “if you like printERS, build, but if you like printING, just buy one” - but nobody talks about the timescale on the fiddling and whether it ever stops.
(currently own a Prusa mk3s I built as a kit and it’s been pretty solid as a tool!)
I avoid buying 2d printers because they are so maintenance heavy... I use a 3D printer in a shared makerspace, where whoever has the most avialability takes on maintenance issues when they arise.
The Prusa mk4's we use are extremely reliable; most problems come down to users doing dumb stuff... or at least, doing risky stuff and not monitoring the print.
I find that I usually have some /kind/ of print I'm making (say, very hollow terrain pieces for tabletop wargames) get my printer settings dialed in over the course of a few failed prints, and then can print more of that kind of thing very reliably. In other words, good printer settings are project dependent, but can usually transfer reliably across simlar projects. And then I don't have to think much about the printer - it just does its thing.
> So my big question, for someone who’s owned one a while: is the printer ever “done”?
The printer is never "done" :). But there are plenty check points where it's "pretty good".
For example, here is my rough timeline:
- I sourced the parts and built it. Took around 4 weekends.
- The initial tuning took a while (like a month). But this was very fun. I tried almost all the Slicers. I fixed constructions issues (square angle, deracking, belt tuning, ...). After this step, the machine becomes "good enough". I can print various parts in the house and I was satisfied with the quality.
- I started pushing for speed and redid many parts of the printer. I learned about various limitations (like Flow Rate is the real limit for speed). This phase last a long time for me (like a year). I ended up replacing like 75% of the printed parts with CNC parts. During this time, the printer is still online and printable.
- I didn't modded the printer much after that. I found my sweet spot between speed / quality. I want to mod it with a 120W Hot End heater to increase the Flow Rate (already bought it), but it's not quite a necessary thing. It's more for fun. The tinkering goes on as long as you feel it's fun. But I wouldn't say you _need_ to tinker to _keep_ it working.
> Is there a point after which it “just works”? Or is it always going to be more like “it’s great! I just need to tweak the blah blah setting every time and retighten the frobnitz every 3 prints, no big deal really!”
After the first tuning phase, the Voron was "just works" for me. Or at least, if there was any issue, I could immediately tell what went wrong. And no retightening needed so far except one time the printed feet cracked (that was the reason I switched to CNC aluminum parts).
Edit: I built a large Voron (350mm), and it is really _heavy_ (almost full metal in my case). That's why the printed feet cracked. Beside that, maintenance is almost zero. I don't even wash the spring steel bed. Just click print and walk away.
Seconding. Voron 2.4r2 350mm here.
I picked up an Ultimaker 2+ with 15,000 hours on it at an ewaste junk shop for $100. Really was expecting it to need some TLC, but I plugged it in, leveled the bed, and it spit out an absolutely passable benchy in a couple hours. Cura (Ultimaker's slicer) isn't open source, but it is free, fairly unobtrusive, and works fine. The printer itself isn't connected to anything but mains power, and loads gcode from an SD card.
> Cura (Ultimaker's slicer) isn't open source
Isn't it? https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura
I'm going to make an unpopular suggestion. Have you considered using a service that will print and ship to you, like CraftCloud?
Depending on volume, your total cost would likely be lower. I know you mentioned privacy concerns so this may not be an option. But it significantly simplifies your work, letting you focus on the parts themselves.
A counter argument is that the short turn around time with local 3D printing is absolutely a feature.
I've printed small stuff just to get the fitting right, before I finished the part with fillets, etc.
Also there is lots of small fun stuff, small fixes you'd never do with a 3d printer if you had to order prints online.
Example, I designed a printed a M8 nut cap with room for the 3mm sharp rod sticking out. I could probably have gotten a metal file to mill down the sharp edge, but it was hard to get at, and this gave a nice finish.
Even if you buy a printer you should be aware of all the services. It might be more expensive but it opens up a lot more options too. Want a SLS print instead - they have it. Want to mill it from steel and then bend it - they can do that for you. Want to make something out of solid wood, no problem. Need a lot of parts fast - they have many printers and overnight shipping (at extra charge).
Sure it costs more, but if you will only do it once that is still cheap. And some of the things they can do for you are not safe to do at home.
CraftCloud is good. The postage is often half my print cost but they’ll get it printed and you don’t have to deal with failures.
I, too, once looked into this, but for anything trivial you immediately exceed the cost of just buying a Bambu Lab A1 mini.
So you might as well buy that and have a lower-spec iteration, because you're going to run into all sorts of design problems before you get to finer constraints.
Bambu Lab A1 Mini ($299-399)
Excellent print quality out of the box Automatic bed leveling and calibration Very user-friendly with great software Compact size, perfect for beginners
Creality K1 Max (~$599)
300x300x300mm build volume Fast printing speeds (up to 600mm/s) Auto-leveling and enclosed design Good balance of features and price
Prusa MINI+ (~$429 kit, $529 assembled)
Exceptional reliability and support Magnetic flexible bed Excellent community and documentation Great for learning and consistent results
A1 Mini build volume is 180 x 180 x 180 mm³
And not enclosed
The Prusa MK4S Kit is $669 right now. Best time ever to buy.
Neither mini are enclosed and can't print all the materials OP asked for.
There are fully open projects like Voron or RatRig, and sellers of DIY kits based on them. Potentially a lot of work unless you're interested in 3D printing itself as a hobby rather than as a tool.
Prusa Core One would be a bit more complete OOTB. It is 220mm in the smallest axis (Y) though. Slicer and firmware are open source, but the hardware is not (unlike previous Prusa printers).
Bambu gives you the same capability for much less, but the firmware is not open source (third party open source firmware does exist). I believe the stock firmware also has to "phone home" at least once before it can be used offline.
Even cheaper are less-well known Chinese companies, like Qidi. Firmware is usually a proprietary fork of Klipper or other open source projects; some people have had success flashing the mainline version.
Get a bambu, dont put it online, use the SD card or lan for transfer... yes they're Chinese and have run roughshod over their contemporaries with respect to IP, yet it's the most die hard printer you'll ever buy. I own 5.
Bambu X1C: I can recommend the Bambu X1C. It would be my printer of choice. In addition to bed-leveling it has flow calibration and AI detection. With the H2S release prices on the X1C are coming down quickly.
Elegoo Centauri Carbon: I know lots of people will recommend the P1S but this printer has 95% of the features at half the cost. Also extruder temp goes higher (320C), for more exotic materials.
I bought a Centauri Carbon due to the pretty much unbeatable pricing and it has worked well for an old roll of Amazon Basics PLA, using it off-line by copying files onto it using a flash drive. Waiting for https://github.com/OpenCentauri/OpenCentauri to pan out before I'll consider putting it on my network.
Looking into GF infused PLA, or PETG for come up-coming projects, and wondering how things will work out with their "Filament Switching System" which was promised for Q3.
If money hadn't been a concern, I'd've chosen a Prusa XL w/ multiple print heads.
I hate to say this. Bambu A1. I'm operating a farm of mixed plumage: 20 Prusa's, 12 Creality K1s and 24 Bambus. Of all of those the Bambus are by far the least troublesome and I would definitely recommend those to a beginner. That said, Bambu is a crap company and they can't be trusted not to do a rugpull sooner or later. We don't have them connected to wifi for that reason alone and tbh it doesn't really add anything to the experience. I like the fact that they're all stand-alone and as long as the power is up the printers are printing. In the last year we've processed about 3000 Kg total with these. In some more detail:
- The Prusa's are real workhorses. They are not the fastest, but they're expensive and they break. But you can always fix them and the degree to which you can tinker with them (especially while they're running) is much higher than the others. I've made a couple of custom ones (one 1x1 meter x 25 cm build volume, five more that are the regular width and length but 60 cm height), with adopted firmware. It's an insanely flexible platform. If you can think of it, handle a hex key and do some minor firmware hacking you can probably make it.
- The K1s... well. Initially we were very impressed. Got a couple to test with, decided they work and ordered 10 more. After a few days the first extruder broke. Gears just snapped their teeth right off. Turns out the extruder gears are plastic. So, ordered upgraded extruders. Next, one after the other, power supplies dying. After that print fans, Then cpu fans. They also had many screws loose right from the factory, we had a whole inspection list made just to structurally address all of the shitty stuff that would be wrong.
- The Bambus. We plugged them in. They work. They still do.
People in this thread are mentioning the SOVOL, if you have the money, that's probably the best printer. But I'd get a couple of Bambus instead and get that many more kilos pushed through. At 200 bucks for the mini and 350 or so for the big A1 it's insane value for money.
Does that help? Feel free to ask more questions.
Bambulab A1 user here.
It's nice for simple stuff, but wouldn't recommend for anything needing precision. In the beginning it was laying out perfect layers, but after 6 months just lost it. Been doing every possible maintenance stuff and it just doesn't go back.
I've had a number of different printers, and the one I like the most [by far] is the Bambu P1S. It doesn't hit your desire to avoid the cloud, but as a machine it is top notch quality, and very reliable. It requires far less babysitting and tweaking than something like a Creality. If you just want to print things and know that most of the time it Just Works, they are a great tool for that.
I bought my first 3D printer six months ago, it feels as high quality as an HP printer, couldn't be happier.
Flashforge Adventurer 5M https://www.flashforge.com/products/adventurer-5m-3d-printer
none of the printers mentioned going to meet any of your requirements.
Prusa isn't fully opensource, but has the worst enclosed chamber printer imo.
Bambu isn't open source in the slightest (beside the slicer).
You are never going to print PC on a bambu either way, at least not Pure PC. Blends, sure, you need at least 100c chambers for pure PC.
diy kits are the way to go, but it is going take you a LONG time. a voron, ratrig, or annex k3 are your best bets with the requirements you want. each kit has their weaknesses, and most of them, are going to require upgrades from their BOM.
(The printers mentioned may fulfill some of the requirements, but not all.)
And yes, I think you're absolutely right. DIY kits are the way to go with OP's requirements.
Whatever you do, you're going to have to dry your filament if you don't use it within a month of opening it.
I used to like the tweaking, but once I got a Bambu P1S, I've gotten spoiled just being able to hit print and let it go.
this isn't always true. i live somewhere so dry PLA is fine left open for several months w no water uptake
OP specifically mentioned "PC/Nylon/ABS".
same applies for those, i was using PLA as an example as its more hygroscopic.
not that it's hard to store a spool of filament in a plastic bin
I'll second the call for checking out smaller companies with Ender clones and similar like Sovol and Qidi; you can find refurbed models like Creality K1's for $200+ off if you're not averse.
Regarding slicer software, Ultimaker Cura is great for beginners, Orca Slicer has a slightly steeper learning curve but they both have their pros and cons such as different support generation algorithms, having an alternative when something doesn't seem to print right with one.
I got a Sovol Sv07+ and it’s decently fast, large build space, and can crank out miniatures that are ‘good enough’ for table top.
Wish the resin printers didn’t have the toxic fumes problem though, then I’d get one of them too.
Whatever you choose, make sure you leave enough money in your budget for a second printer. Easiest way to double your print throughput :)
If you want good prints and only care about the prints, get Bambu P1S. If you want to tinker with the machine and have a lot of free time on your hands then Prusa. although Prsusa starting to close up it's walls like Bambu.
Unless you buy kit, you don't really have to tinker with prusa (I have MK4S), it just seems to work.
What? Prusa used to be the most open company out there. I can't believe they are going to enshittify their products now.
Anyway, I have a Bambu, and it is a nice printer, but it wants to phone home and it is difficult to use when you put it behind a firewall.
Prusa is getting tired of investing R&D and then having someone else copy that. Someone else without an R&D budget can make things cheaper because they don't have that budget.
They are most tired of investing in R&D in the open and then having some company do a patent in their country. The company then sues them for infringement.
That's sad. But how does that affect me as a potential customer?
What do you intend to make?
Is your goal to earn or learn?
How much time do you have to spend on 3d printing?
I do repair and modernizing of cars/motorcycles/dirtbike/ATVs, that kind of stuff. Fuel injection conversions are something I specialize in. That is why I would like durable/resistant materials as an option. I won't be trying to earn with it intentionally, unless I stumble upon a niche. There are already more than a couple 3d printing services around here, no need to compete there.
I can do what I need to do in CAD, design my own parts, etc. Other than the above, I'll use it for gifts, stuff around the home, rasPi and ESP32 electronic projects with home assistant, misc. enclosures, etc. I have a broad set of use cases but running production 24/7/365 isn't something I see myself doing unless I stumble upon a niche as I mentioned.
> Fuel injection conversions are something I specialize in.
What kind of temperatures/pressures/chemical exposure are you expecting for your prints? You should probably start there, check for 3d printing materials that can actually handle those requirements, and then filter for printing technologies that fit the bill. I would imagine that would already break it down a lot.
see my response to another reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45280742
How many parts are we talking? I sounds to me like you are the perfect candidate for send-cut-send or one of the many many other services that take your CAD and build parts. You get to choose from materials your printer couldn't do (not matter what you have something cannot be done)
Low volume stuff, single digits of parts, unless I find that niche, and i might outsource then. I'll keep the send-cut-send type stuff in mind. There are variations to certain parts that I'd like to iterate on, for example, intake runner lengths, diameters and shapes, various adapters/converters, panels/covers, etc. Plus, it's fun to do things yourself and learn along the way. It's not just about the end result.
Using a service would be better for a final part in a better material for the sake of longevity, not just 3d printed either, but cnc'd aluminum for example. Plastics can only go so far, but for short durations in some stressful situations, like intake manifolds, they can give you information. Having a printer in house will let me prototype to verify functionality of some engine parts, and being able to print in resistant materials will let me make final parts of less stressed parts in areas exposed to fuels, oils, etc.
When you have a printer, cycle times can be much shorter…and a few fast cycles with a job shop will pay for a printer.
Small jobs from small customers are not a high priority for job shops. Neither are cheap jobs.
Having a printer means you are able to work on projects at 2am Sunday.
if youre interested in repair and solid part design, you may also want to consider SLA design printers. 4k panels are super cheap and its easier to work with strong resins (but messy) than eg, ABS heated bed and fume enclosures
I have both a resin and FDM printer. The FDM is hands down easier to work with than dealing with resin. FDM ABS is also a far better material than ABS-like resin. (Disclosure: I've never tried a proper industrial resin from LOCTITE or something.)
Great answers exist, but will be ephemeral. In other words this is a journey. Pick what your into now and ask the question. What's a good gun for sub $1000? What's a good computer for sub $1000? What's a good sewing machine for sub $1000?
First up: If you were a machinist and can model in CAD (especially constraint based, not mesh based), slicers are trivial. You'll spend a bit learning about materials & how to deal with their inadequacies by fiddling with support structures, but it's really not an obstacle.
If OSS firmware and repairability matter to you, prepare to invest a lot of time fixing and improving your tooling. (But... if you've machined before, you likely know that drill :)
The Sovol SV06 is almost there in terms of build volume - and it clocks in at $350, so it might be a good starting point. The Voron 2.4 is 350 mm^3 and almost $1000, also a decent machine. Elegoo's Neptune 4 straddles the edge of open source - it's a branded klipper build.
All of them are enclosable (i.e. you can buy enclosures, or build one)
From what I hear, the Voron's the most likely fit for your material requirements. (But, worth keeping in mind - an alternate path is a cheapo PLA printer for prototyping, and then shipping of files to a printing service. Depends on what you plan to do)
Printable PC/Nylon/ABS are not the same as the injection molded equivalents, you may want to research this more if that is an issue. I've printed every material under the sun trying to chase various material properties, and I usually just come back to printing in PLA due to it's excellent mechanical properties (up to a certain temp), excellent layer adhesion, and near 100% success rate. When you stray from from PLA, you will start running into warping, shrink, layer adhesion, and other issues. If you need parts in PC/Nylon/ABS, get the design dialed in in PLA (I as almost all others recommend bambulab), and then send the part to FirstCut/Protolabs to have it machined out of whatever you want.
At that build volume I think you need to expand your budget slightly. The Prusa MK4S is on a deep discount right now but is just short of those numbers you listed.
Even the Core One just barely misses.
Prusa XL hits your target but is twice your budget.
Also honestly build volume can be a little overrated unless you're printing helmets. You can make things in smaller parts. More build volume brings with it more print issues you have to deal with. But also yeah look at a Voron maybe or the SV08.
If you're new to printing, start smaller anyway. If you've done machining you know there's a materials learning curve and the same thing applies here to the nth degree. Print material, volume, orientation, density, first-layer adhesion, temperature, etc all are things you will have to account for and will affect your print quality/strength. You want to learn about these things in smaller prints that waste less time and material rather than more/larger.
E.g., get the MK4S Kit.
Buy a bambu P1s, a 0.4mm hardened nozzle for CF filaments, and maybe a filament dryer. You'll have a tool to spit parts out instead of a hobby in and of itself[0]. Bambu isn't the least evil company, but it's honestly just that good.
Can work offline, but you'll probably need to block it at the firewall level if you care enough about privacy.
[0]Unless that's what your looking for.
Two real paths:
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Option #1:
Just buy the X1C. It's the best printer at your size range and price category (I own this, a Prusa Core One, and several creality machines).
Frankly - spend the extra 100 dollars and get the Combo with the AMS 2. Even if you don't want to do multi-color prints, it saves more than enough time switching filaments quickly to make it worth it if you're printing with any regularity.
This will let you use a 3d printer like it's a tool, and as someone who is printing CAD designed structural parts - it excels at just popping out decent parts, in all of the materials you want for structural parts.
Lock it into LAN mode. Despite claims to the contrary it's quite repairable (ex - I just replaced the hotbed on mine because a lightning strike damaged the torque sensors [side note - it fucking finished the print on resume when my power came back up - even without working torque sensors on the z axis]). Parts are available, they aren't outrageously priced, and the instructions are plenty clear.
Personally - I would strongly recommend this path. Understand what "good" looks like in the space before branching out into other requirements.
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Option #2:
Build a Voron Kit. It's going to take you several days of full time assembly, It'll cost more for the same quality, it's going to have some maddening "dial it in" moments.
But you get a machine that you fully understand.
You'll need to be very comfortable with both hardware and software for the assembly. If you want anything like the remote control & monitoring of corporate printers, you'll need to be comfortable hosting your own services and exposing things on the public internet (ex: tailscale/wireguard or just plain public).
Personally - DO THIS! but don't do it first. First get an X1C and understand what good printing looks like.
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Everything not a Voron probably isn't really "open" in the sense that you want. (Sure - you can flash a lot of machines. You still own that machine - it doesn't magically become higher quality, and most things run a Marlin/Klipper variant anyways)
Everything not a Bambu is a step backwards in print quality and ecosystem experience.
The middle sucks on all most fronts except price, but 1k is enough to get the better machines.
The comment section is full of people who aren't reading the requirements.
Bamboo Labs shouldn't be recommended as OP doesn't want a printer that phones home and is open source.
Then there's cheap printers that are either too small or aren't enclosed, again not suitable for OP.
DIY kits fit OP's requirements better IMO.
Ll
The Ender 3 V2 is very solid and repeatable, but loud. I spent more money making mine quiet than I did buying it. You can literally get Enders free or for very little in classifieds. Bambu has a very good marketing department.
There are cheap VORON kits that fits the budget and other needs, although they come with a bunch of tinkering. But you can't beat the open source and repairability aspect.