"Analyses of soil from the holes found ancient pollens of maize (corn), one of the most important staple crops in the Andes, and reeds that have traditionally been used over millennia for making baskets. These unexpected findings importantly indicate that people deposited plants in the holes, using woven baskets and/or bundles for transport."
That's a stretch. All it indicates to me is that these people ate and they had woven baskets.
Maybe he should have checked out Maria Reiche, because this doesn't pass the smell test. A marketplace would look totally different to a long band of holes. The storage theory looks more plausible
If there really were baskets of corn there, it seems more likely it was used for storage, and situated along the ridge not too far from the valley floor to protect the crops from floods and perhaps raids. Picture (a) in the article has a defensive settlement marked nearby.
There were a large number of of Incan markets at elevation in the Andes. If your civilization was built around the productivity of terrace farming - then people will be living at high elevation.
There are easier ways to mine gravel and sedimentary rock than a long series of shallow holes you've lined with stone walls and stored produce in.
Notably, if you go about 10m to the side along parts of the wall, you can just mine the erosive slope for gravel without even digging. There are no notable mineral deposits in this area and it doesn't follow a geologic layer.
When the barbarians come to raid, it’s much easier to tip a rock over to stop them.
“I have the high ground” became a meme because of the Star Wars prequels but it was a legitimate force multiplier.
The US has a military strategy of air supremacy, notably different from air dominance, because of how easy it is to win when you can just let go of a rock and it’s guided to your enemy by gravity.
I don’t, libertarian ideals like that book die the first time they meet an organized group of bears[1]
Also if I recall they were in underground cities in that book and not clinging to the edge of a mountainside like invaders would be doing in regards to the content of the original post
Oh I’m sorry, that was a tongue in cheek reference to a known event that I assume /u/ancapistani is familiar with unless you have the luckiest random user name ever.
The point was that libertarian ideals fail whenever faced with a problem that requires a societal level response since the members are incapable of working together due to their own selfishness, e.x. Someone feeding the bears that were causing their neighbors harm
And the state hasn’t managed a solution to bears? They mustered the banners and had their hunters kill them all back when it was a problem.
The libertarians are the ones arguing that I should be allowed to run a bear farming factory next to the kindergarten with a suspiciously high number of bear related deaths per capita for children.
The holes don't have to be the physical location where the goods were sold. It's just where they're stored. Think of the lots at a big auction, arranged in rows behind the bidding house/tent. You bid on a standardized lot and when you win it you go collect your goods from stall X, which you might have inspected before the sale. That's similar to what the authors are proposing here for markets, which is only one of a number of possibilities they offer.
I joke, a little. But it also makes me think of findings like all those ancient voluptuous “Venus” figurines found the world over. Signs of a global fertility goddess as archaeologists theorize, or merely an early form of Hustler magazine?
I'm curious to what degree pre-Columbian civilizations aren't well understood due to the lack of evidence beyond our control, versus the lack of study/attention to the region. I imagine the dense and difficult terrain doesn't help either.
A huge part of the problem is the whole "burning every Maya book" thing that some spanish dudes decided to embark on. Various ethnic cleansing campaigns over the last two centuries or so, not to mention the impact of disease.
Its a real tragedy the colonizers didn't think to preserve the world they were conquering.
Modern Maya are starting to learn how to read and write their own language again but that only happened in the last 40 years or so. (They never forgot how to speak it.)
Most of their written knowledge was lost forever as you point out.
"Analyses of soil from the holes found ancient pollens of maize (corn), one of the most important staple crops in the Andes, and reeds that have traditionally been used over millennia for making baskets. These unexpected findings importantly indicate that people deposited plants in the holes, using woven baskets and/or bundles for transport."
That's a stretch. All it indicates to me is that these people ate and they had woven baskets.
Maybe he should have checked out Maria Reiche, because this doesn't pass the smell test. A marketplace would look totally different to a long band of holes. The storage theory looks more plausible
It does seem an unlikely place for a market:
13°42′59.9″S 75°52′28.46″W
If there really were baskets of corn there, it seems more likely it was used for storage, and situated along the ridge not too far from the valley floor to protect the crops from floods and perhaps raids. Picture (a) in the article has a defensive settlement marked nearby.
Still, a very enigmatic site
Just where I'd put a marketplace: in a large linear formation on top of a mountain ridge.
There were a large number of of Incan markets at elevation in the Andes. If your civilization was built around the productivity of terrace farming - then people will be living at high elevation.
What you describe has no relationship to the photos in the article.
I mostly agree, it’s weird.
However the region has little in the way of flat ground and the nice flat valley floor is very very flood prone.
Top photo looks like mining to me.
There are easier ways to mine gravel and sedimentary rock than a long series of shallow holes you've lined with stone walls and stored produce in.
Notably, if you go about 10m to the side along parts of the wall, you can just mine the erosive slope for gravel without even digging. There are no notable mineral deposits in this area and it doesn't follow a geologic layer.
When the barbarians come to raid, it’s much easier to tip a rock over to stop them.
“I have the high ground” became a meme because of the Star Wars prequels but it was a legitimate force multiplier.
The US has a military strategy of air supremacy, notably different from air dominance, because of how easy it is to win when you can just let go of a rock and it’s guided to your enemy by gravity.
You need to read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"...
I don’t, libertarian ideals like that book die the first time they meet an organized group of bears[1]
Also if I recall they were in underground cities in that book and not clinging to the edge of a mountainside like invaders would be doing in regards to the content of the original post
[1] https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-int...
Funny how even TNR recognizes that the bears were not the cause of the group’s fizzling out, nor has the state managed a solution.
Oh I’m sorry, that was a tongue in cheek reference to a known event that I assume /u/ancapistani is familiar with unless you have the luckiest random user name ever.
The point was that libertarian ideals fail whenever faced with a problem that requires a societal level response since the members are incapable of working together due to their own selfishness, e.x. Someone feeding the bears that were causing their neighbors harm
And the state hasn’t managed a solution to bears? They mustered the banners and had their hunters kill them all back when it was a problem.
The libertarians are the ones arguing that I should be allowed to run a bear farming factory next to the kindergarten with a suspiciously high number of bear related deaths per capita for children.
It's 1.5km long. It would sure suck to be the guy selling products at the far end.
Idk I'm not an archaeologist or an anthropologist but the idea it's a market sure seems farfetched to me.
The holes don't have to be the physical location where the goods were sold. It's just where they're stored. Think of the lots at a big auction, arranged in rows behind the bidding house/tent. You bid on a standardized lot and when you win it you go collect your goods from stall X, which you might have inspected before the sale. That's similar to what the authors are proposing here for markets, which is only one of a number of possibilities they offer.
Schizophrenic hermit starts digging holes 4000 years ago. Archeologists today: marketplace!
I joke, a little. But it also makes me think of findings like all those ancient voluptuous “Venus” figurines found the world over. Signs of a global fertility goddess as archaeologists theorize, or merely an early form of Hustler magazine?
I'm curious to what degree pre-Columbian civilizations aren't well understood due to the lack of evidence beyond our control, versus the lack of study/attention to the region. I imagine the dense and difficult terrain doesn't help either.
A huge part of the problem is the whole "burning every Maya book" thing that some spanish dudes decided to embark on. Various ethnic cleansing campaigns over the last two centuries or so, not to mention the impact of disease.
Its a real tragedy the colonizers didn't think to preserve the world they were conquering.
Modern Maya are starting to learn how to read and write their own language again but that only happened in the last 40 years or so. (They never forgot how to speak it.)
Most of their written knowledge was lost forever as you point out.
Reboot magazine recently published an article about making a Mayan keyboard:
https://joinreboot.org/p/how-to-build-a-mayan-keyboard
Seems more like intentional basins to catch snow and hold the snowpack longer into the spring to keep the surrounding soil moist for crops nearby ?