As a long time marijuana user, these pro weed articles always crack me up. Sure it has some limited legitimate medical usages for pain or other applications. Vast majority of users are just addicts in denial, myself included for the longest time. Anthropologists in the future will be studying the effects of drastically increased marijuana consumption on society for decades in the future. I do wonder when the general populace will wake up to the propaganda, for example, how it’s clearly a gateway drug and clearly addictive on some level.
I can tell you from years of first hand experience, it certainly makes you far dumber. The biggest factor is loss of memory. Most stoners (myself included) have terrible memory. I used to have near photographic memory, where I’d only have to read things once to remember them nearly verbatim for months after. I genuinely wonder at times where I’d be in my life if I had never got sucked into it years ago. I’m doing great despite the problems it’s caused me, but who knows where I’d be without it.
A few of my friends are chronic users and have a characteristic that when talking to them even when not high, there is a noticeable pause. It's like when they do those news interviews from someone around the world via satellite. There is the question and then a pause while the person just stares blankly for second, then recognition of the question and the answer. Have you ever experienced this yourself or notice it in heavy users.
As a chronic user, this is something I experience while stoned, but not while sober. I have a lot of behaviors when sober that people tend to classify as ADHD-like and I suspect it is related to this pause. Normally, when sober, I have a tough time staying focused on one thing. I typically have many projects going at once - half of them forgotten. You should see me cleaning my house - the whole thing will look torn apart as I jump from one area to the next, until the very end.
But when stoned, during that pause, I'm finishing with processing another thought that is already in my head. I find it harder to context-switch immediately when stoned. This is very different from my normal experience when sober, where my brain is very "flighty." The other time I notice this type of pause is when I've entered a "flow state," e.g. when deep in a programming project.
Sometimes I can leverage this "focus" into productivity when stoned, but then I am often equally likely to get focused on the wrong thing.
That said, it's well established that marijuana use acutely reduces your reaction time.
I do this a lot. It’s usually a pretty embarrassing pause but usually happens when my mind blanks mid sentence or I start talking again after an interruption.
Then again, I’ve never been able to speak well. I feel like my thoughts go too fast for my mouth.
How would it clearly be a gateway drug? I don't think this concept even makes sense.
Sure if contact to X also brings you in contact with Y, you could see X as gateway to Y. But what contact to other drugs you have depends on where you acquire the Marijuana.
If I home-grow I see none. In a pharmacy I need prescriptions to access their other drugs, so also not a gateway. It's only problematic when acquired via dealers who also sell other stuff. When I tried buying weed on the street, vendors didn't offer me other drugs.
I think when pot was illegal it was much more likely to be a 'gateway' because it's connecting users to other illegal elements. The pot dealer may also deal in MDMA, lsd, coke, etc...
Now that pot is legal in so many places, it's less likely to gateway to anything - like alcohol.
> it's less likely to gateway to anything - like alcohol
That's a bad example to make your point. Alcohol is absolutely a gateway drug. I know many a cigarette smoker who had their first cig puff while intoxicated around other drinkers who were smoking.
When a commonplace and socially accepted drug like alcohol can amplify poor judgement and inhibition, the sky's the limit for what unfolds next.
I mean in my case, I never even considered drugs until I started smoking weed in college. So it was definitely a gateway drug for me. At first glance, weed has little to no noticeable downsides. This made me think that the other drugs must be the same way. It led me into a drug abuse phase of my life that I still struggle with. Prior to that, I barely did drugs at all and had no real inclination to do so.
I think part of it is the crowd you end up in when you smoke weed. Unsurprisingly, drug use lends itself to putting you in situations with other drug users. These users often completely ignore, leave out, or outright lie about the downsides of these drugs, from chronic weed use to LSD.
I’m not going to comment on the gateway drug part, but I definitely agree that - as someone who has consumed cannabis daily for about 30 years now - that I always smirks when only positives are being highlighted.
It definitely has negative effects long term. Concentration is impacted. In my case, it can cause anxiety. The impacts are subtle, but they’re there.
The negative side effects are definitely being underrepresented at the “non-scaremongering” parts of civilization.
I think weed is actually far more insidious than most drugs, because it’s incredibly easy to be a functional stoner. The downsides don’t start to appear until you’re years down the road, and often the marijuana haze keeps you from fully evaluating just how detrimental those downsides have been on you. At that point, you’re legitimately addicted, and your brain begins to sweet talk any attempt at rationality.
For me, the downsides manifest as drarticlsly increased anxiety (I naturally have next to none), extremely poor sleep - I sleep but the sleep is so low quality it begins to feel like my brain barely works right, and the obvious one, the effects on your motivation. I naturally tend towards ADHD style dopamine chasing, and weed makes that about 100x worse. Instead of getting my work done, I will procrastinate with any number of cheap dopamine hits such as video games, internet sleuthing, etc.
I started medical cannabis at 38 after leaving the military and it has been completely transformative for my Epilepsy/PTSD/CPTSD/arthritis and all of the other bullshit that came from being in the military for 17 years
100% of my doctors say (incl. Director level at Mt Sinai and orthopedic surgeons for the Washington commnders) are more than delighted with my prescription
My biggest complaint is the smell. I absolutely hate it. The smell is strong and spreads everywhere. Some people in our community smoke marijuana while walking their dogs. At the same time, my wife takes our newborn for a walk. It’s absolutely unacceptable.
Edit: down-voters do not allow me to dislike the smell. Hilarious! I'm at -2 now. Nice! I get it, i get it. I must love it.
The hardest part about the conversation with regards to the smell of weed is how quickly you can become noseblind to it.
I don't smoke weed but I had a roommate in college that smoked in the apartment 24/hours a day. The first week was unbearable. I could barely breath, my clothes reeked of weed, even my books reeked of it. But, after that first week, I didn't even notice the smell. Yeah, when he lit up I'd notice it for a second but nothing more than that.
Enough time has passed that I'm no longer noseblind to it but I wish I still were. I can smell it when the car ahead of me is smoking, I can smell it when the person on the other side of the bar recently smoked, hell, I can smell it in my car as soon as I start to approach my neighboring state where it's legal. At my last house I was tearing my hair out trying to catch the skunk or fox that made my yard reek every night during the summer. Of course, eventually I realized it coincided with my neighbors college-aged kid coming home for summer break and smoking in their room.
Anyone that says that cigarette smoke, perfume, car exhaust, people's breath in general, smell to any degree that weed does to non-smokers is incredulous. Just because you smoke and you don't recognize it, doesn't mean that everyone around you can't.
Not really. Regular cigarette smoke is less intense and dissipates pretty quickly outdoors. Marijuana smoke is much stronger, lingers longer, and carries farther, so it impacts everyone nearby a lot more.
It's fine to dislike the smell, but I find cigarette smoke far more unappealing. I grew up in a time where everyone seemed to smoke everywhere. Catching a waft of weed every once in awhile is much more preferable.
I can't stand perfume. I absolutely hate it. The smell is strong and spreads everywhere. Some people in our community wear perfume while indoors. At the same time, my wife takes our newborn shopping. It’s absolutely unacceptable.
Classic whataboutism. The existence of problem A doesn’t cancel out problem B. Car exhaust being harmful doesn’t suddenly make strong marijuana smoke in public acceptable, especially around kids.
I don't think it's whataboutism to point out the far bigger problem. There's evidence to show that vehicle pollution leads to respiratory issues in children and certainly reduces life expectancy. Meanwhile cannabis smoke has not been shown to have anything near that level of toxicity and is certainly less common.
It hardly makes any sense to focus on the far smaller issue that doesn't seem to cause any issues apart from pearl clutching.
I disagree as the air quality issue is dominated by vehicle pollution. The smell of cannabis in open areas is hardly even worth discussing as it's such a minor issue. Putting effort into addressing a minor issue when there's life threatening air pollution issues would be completely inappropriate and misguided.
Whataboutism would be more like comparing cannabis odour to people who fart in lifts.
I’ve noticed it California since legalization use has skyrocketed and everyday intelligence seems to have gone through the floor. Similar to if we as a society started day drinking regularly.
I see people smoke all day all the time now and while driving and it clearly affects their judgement. I don’t know why legalization lead to “no moderation at all” and “I smoke at work”
> I’ve noticed it California since legalization use has skyrocketed and everyday intelligence seems to have gone through the floor.
True, but I’m still outperforming the raised by iPad kids entering the workforce now. Any intelligence I’ve lost was not going towards anything that mattered anyway.
I live in MN where it’s effectively been decriminalized for years. I believe 100% it has had extremely negative effects on the general populace. I see it in myself and all of my Gen Z/millennial friends that smoke regularly. The amount of money I’ve wasted alone on weed is frankly disgusting, and it’s not looked down upon like it would be if I was at the liquor store every other day blowing my paychecks.
Agreed completely on the day drinking point. That’s actually what got me to quit initially years ago. I realized, would I be drinking right now before work? Hell no. So why am I okay with getting high?
Let me counter this with all of my anecdata: I don't know a single pothead that improved compared to who they were (mentally especially, including cognitive function) compared to when I knew them before they started smoking pot. I'm sure they exist, I have not met them in person yet.
Same. The only person I know who consumes it and isnt slow brained is a guy that eats it once a year in a brownie at some guys birthday party, and not every year.
I've seen many. There are no shortage of successful people who say so themselves.
Read what any of your favorite musicians have to say about it. Check the science and testimony on it enhancing creativity and sensory experience, helping people see see themselves and the world from a new perspective - introspective development.
You know, the same sort of introspection that might make one wonder if your statement above says a lot more about you, and your values, than it does about cannabis enjoyers.
> There are no shortage of successful people who say so themselves.
Yes, I know some of those. But usually they are either very light users or they achieved their success before becoming heavy users.
I also know some pretty heavy users that are adamant that they are doing better than before but their environment does not usually agree. This is a thing that is fairly common with heavy drug users though.
Analogous to Dunning-Kruger. The drug user only perceives his experience as profound, but the perception is measured by a mind poorly positioned to judge the experience.
I know lots of people that smoke heavily and I've watched their trajectory over decades. It's a sad story really. I'm pretty sure if you manage it responsibly the benefits may well outweigh the downsides but over the long term it really adds up.
Of course, everybody ages, and people are not usually as sharp as they were in their twenties or earlier. But given that I also have access to a sizeable control group where I don't see that effect I figure it has to have some factual basis too large to be just handwaved away.
Feel free to correct the fact that we haven't met in person by the way, you & yours are always welcome here.
However other research shows a concerning association between long-term, heavy cannabis use and an increased risk of dementia, including Alzheimer's disease. [1]
Knowledge is being aware of the analogy of tomatoes not being treated like fruits even though they technically are.
Wisdom is understanding that if there was legislation on the matter, and people who ate, produced, or sold non-tomato fruits were hunted and deprived of their freedoms by the state on the basis that fruits are bad for society, then you would likely see similar frustrations expressed about an article title that includes the phrase "tomatoes and fruits" to distinguish them.
Alcohol in moderation is relaxing. Most drugs, OTOH, when used at the doses that make them attractive to recreational drug users, impair reason, and impairing reason is not just stupid, but immoral. We can debate the particular methods by which the state regulates or otherwise deals with drug use, but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the criminalization of such drugs as such. No one has a right to take drugs (there is no right to immorality). This may seem alien to a culture whose emaciated understanding of morality is exhausted by the concept of consent. The law is a teacher, and it is good to teach people that recreational drug use (and drunkenness) is a bad thing. Like all immorality, it is an insult to one's dignity and humanity.
We can tolerate the impairment of reason as a proportionate side effect [0] (for instance, high doses of morphine given to terminally ill patients in extreme pain), but this is not recreational use.
We know. But it's a problem because alcohol is one of the most dangerous and damaging drugs. It's basically just society grandfathering it in and all of us living in a state of cognitive dissonance.
re: the article itself, they concentrate only on brain regions which have high density of CB1 expression and that's reasonable. But CB1 is not the only CNS cannabinoid receptor (CB2 mostly expressed peripherally). There's also GPR55 which is activated by cannabinoids like THC. A little issue which could be addressed in future work.
I've gone to numerous tasting events where I spit out all of the wine. There may be hundreds of bottles being poured at a trade show and you can't really taste more than a handful if you are swallowing.
Wittgenstein has an example, imagine you are on a construction site and someone says 'Slab!'
Do they mean 'That is a slab.' or 'Hand me that slab.'?
Context matters. There is no correct answer. There are no metaphysical truth particles that shake 'True!'. Expressivism, how you feel about the statement, is going to decide what you think.
Anyway, I used to intentionally say things like "I love drugs, although its specifically Caffeine."
There is a reason for this distinction. Alcohol in moderation is relaxing and can be enjoyable to the senses. Most drugs, and at the doses that make them appealing for recreational use, impair the exercise and function of reason and the sense faculties that inform it. (Drunkenness is bad for the same reason.) Given how central and essential to humanity reason is, that's an incredibly important distinction.
There is no chemical shortcut to brain health. If you have a neurotransmitter shortage, a substitution is suggested to bring it back. There is never a cannabis shortage or for that matter opioid or benzo and a surplus is harmful. Their use is justified only if another effect is desired (pain killing for cannabis and opioids or anxiolysis for benzo).
Cannabis usage is linked to self-reported better cognitive function. But some new studies suggest it's not wise to do technical interviews while baked. Nobody can explain this paradox.
I smoked daily for years. I’m endlessly relieved that I no longer do. Quitting was like getting an almost immediate intelligence, memory, focus, and QoL boost.
But they (or at least Harry J Anslinger) did make up the name "marijuana" just so that it sounds vaguely Mexican/Spanish in an attempt to link racism and drug enforcement.
Weed is expensive. But not terribly addictive. Another words, a luxury product, but people will not usually forego necessities to get it like more addictive drugs.
I don't think there is any controversy there is at least a weak link between intelligence and access to luxury goods.
In other news, occasional cigar smokers have slightly lower cancer rates. It aint the cigars...
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Edit: those talking about price being cheap in US: the data is from UK biobank. Unclear to me if that's actually UK citizens, but prices in UK are significantly higher than those quoting legal weed state prices. It appears those downvoting / rebutting are attempting to strong-arm a US centric view into foreign sourced data.
Using data from the UK Biobank, which includes health information from over 500,000 adults, associations between cannabis use, regional brain volume, and cognition in participants aged 40–70 years (mean age = 54.5) were evaluated.
It’s cheap for ocassional use, yes. However, heavy users spend quite a bit for their habit since their tolerance level is shut. Also I never found it to be addictive but that’s my own bias, there are a lot of users who can’t go to sleep without it, not to mention daily and frequent use.
The 10mg THC drinks give a whiff of cannabis when you open one and produce an intoxication similar to smoking with an experience similar to drinking an alcoholic drink. It's more expensive than the cheapest beer, but similar to a reasonably priced wine or drink in a bar. Unfortunately these will be gone in most places by the end of 2026.
THC does not evaporate into the air in appreciable quantities. What you smell is terpenes, flavor compounds, or carbonation carrying aroma, not psychoactive THC...
Agreed. I will say that the 5 mg THC/10 mg CBD drinks don't have the same smell and I don't know if that is just the terpenes that ride along naturally or if they add flavoring to make the stronger drink stronger smelling. I'd say the 5/10 drink is really not worth the bother.
If you smoke weed regularly I'm not sure any of the 5/10mg edibles are particularly useful outside of diabetes. Health Canada puts a 10mg limit on THC extract for edible ingestion and personally I find it weird, people are consuming insane amounts of sugar eating gummies to get stoned due to tolerances. If you happened to be in Canada, there are a few companies that have snuck fully decarboxylated thc into the resin syringes you can get as "resin for smoking", BOXHOT Disty Dabber and Ellevia RSO can both be consumed edible out of the box and are considerably better than any other edible on the market, careful tho, a little goes a long way.
This can be said about any drug, but even then, heavy use of weed vs other drugs is absolutely cheaper, especially these days if you live in an area where it's legal and/or are willing to grow it.
As a long time marijuana user, these pro weed articles always crack me up. Sure it has some limited legitimate medical usages for pain or other applications. Vast majority of users are just addicts in denial, myself included for the longest time. Anthropologists in the future will be studying the effects of drastically increased marijuana consumption on society for decades in the future. I do wonder when the general populace will wake up to the propaganda, for example, how it’s clearly a gateway drug and clearly addictive on some level.
My impression was that it is a well known fact that canabinoids help with neurogenesis. Random article on topic https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/behavioral-neuroscience...
But maybe its a pop-science kind of fact that I've been carring along all this time without factuality?
I can tell you from years of first hand experience, it certainly makes you far dumber. The biggest factor is loss of memory. Most stoners (myself included) have terrible memory. I used to have near photographic memory, where I’d only have to read things once to remember them nearly verbatim for months after. I genuinely wonder at times where I’d be in my life if I had never got sucked into it years ago. I’m doing great despite the problems it’s caused me, but who knows where I’d be without it.
How long have you used cannabis? My memory was much better 20 years ago and I've never used cannabis.
A few of my friends are chronic users and have a characteristic that when talking to them even when not high, there is a noticeable pause. It's like when they do those news interviews from someone around the world via satellite. There is the question and then a pause while the person just stares blankly for second, then recognition of the question and the answer. Have you ever experienced this yourself or notice it in heavy users.
As a chronic user, this is something I experience while stoned, but not while sober. I have a lot of behaviors when sober that people tend to classify as ADHD-like and I suspect it is related to this pause. Normally, when sober, I have a tough time staying focused on one thing. I typically have many projects going at once - half of them forgotten. You should see me cleaning my house - the whole thing will look torn apart as I jump from one area to the next, until the very end.
But when stoned, during that pause, I'm finishing with processing another thought that is already in my head. I find it harder to context-switch immediately when stoned. This is very different from my normal experience when sober, where my brain is very "flighty." The other time I notice this type of pause is when I've entered a "flow state," e.g. when deep in a programming project.
Sometimes I can leverage this "focus" into productivity when stoned, but then I am often equally likely to get focused on the wrong thing.
That said, it's well established that marijuana use acutely reduces your reaction time.
I do this a lot. It’s usually a pretty embarrassing pause but usually happens when my mind blanks mid sentence or I start talking again after an interruption.
Then again, I’ve never been able to speak well. I feel like my thoughts go too fast for my mouth.
> I can tell you from years of first hand experience, it certainly makes you far dumber. The biggest factor is loss of memory.
We all have anecdotes, and mine contradict yours.
All of the non-users of cannabis I know have terrible memory, and are often surprised by mine.
In my experience (short term) memory completely recovers after you stop smoking pot.
How would it clearly be a gateway drug? I don't think this concept even makes sense. Sure if contact to X also brings you in contact with Y, you could see X as gateway to Y. But what contact to other drugs you have depends on where you acquire the Marijuana. If I home-grow I see none. In a pharmacy I need prescriptions to access their other drugs, so also not a gateway. It's only problematic when acquired via dealers who also sell other stuff. When I tried buying weed on the street, vendors didn't offer me other drugs.
I agree with your other points though.
I think when pot was illegal it was much more likely to be a 'gateway' because it's connecting users to other illegal elements. The pot dealer may also deal in MDMA, lsd, coke, etc...
Now that pot is legal in so many places, it's less likely to gateway to anything - like alcohol.
> it's less likely to gateway to anything - like alcohol
That's a bad example to make your point. Alcohol is absolutely a gateway drug. I know many a cigarette smoker who had their first cig puff while intoxicated around other drinkers who were smoking.
When a commonplace and socially accepted drug like alcohol can amplify poor judgement and inhibition, the sky's the limit for what unfolds next.
I mean in my case, I never even considered drugs until I started smoking weed in college. So it was definitely a gateway drug for me. At first glance, weed has little to no noticeable downsides. This made me think that the other drugs must be the same way. It led me into a drug abuse phase of my life that I still struggle with. Prior to that, I barely did drugs at all and had no real inclination to do so.
I think part of it is the crowd you end up in when you smoke weed. Unsurprisingly, drug use lends itself to putting you in situations with other drug users. These users often completely ignore, leave out, or outright lie about the downsides of these drugs, from chronic weed use to LSD.
I’m not going to comment on the gateway drug part, but I definitely agree that - as someone who has consumed cannabis daily for about 30 years now - that I always smirks when only positives are being highlighted.
It definitely has negative effects long term. Concentration is impacted. In my case, it can cause anxiety. The impacts are subtle, but they’re there.
The negative side effects are definitely being underrepresented at the “non-scaremongering” parts of civilization.
I think weed is actually far more insidious than most drugs, because it’s incredibly easy to be a functional stoner. The downsides don’t start to appear until you’re years down the road, and often the marijuana haze keeps you from fully evaluating just how detrimental those downsides have been on you. At that point, you’re legitimately addicted, and your brain begins to sweet talk any attempt at rationality.
For me, the downsides manifest as drarticlsly increased anxiety (I naturally have next to none), extremely poor sleep - I sleep but the sleep is so low quality it begins to feel like my brain barely works right, and the obvious one, the effects on your motivation. I naturally tend towards ADHD style dopamine chasing, and weed makes that about 100x worse. Instead of getting my work done, I will procrastinate with any number of cheap dopamine hits such as video games, internet sleuthing, etc.
Regarding anxiety,
Have you tried blending in CBD?
Typically I smoke small joints with 90% CBD strains and the rest a high THC strain, only thing I can smoke.
I started medical cannabis at 38 after leaving the military and it has been completely transformative for my Epilepsy/PTSD/CPTSD/arthritis and all of the other bullshit that came from being in the military for 17 years
100% of my doctors say (incl. Director level at Mt Sinai and orthopedic surgeons for the Washington commnders) are more than delighted with my prescription
so like that’s just your opinion man
Ha +1 for the Lebowski reference.
My biggest complaint is the smell. I absolutely hate it. The smell is strong and spreads everywhere. Some people in our community smoke marijuana while walking their dogs. At the same time, my wife takes our newborn for a walk. It’s absolutely unacceptable.
Edit: down-voters do not allow me to dislike the smell. Hilarious! I'm at -2 now. Nice! I get it, i get it. I must love it.
The hardest part about the conversation with regards to the smell of weed is how quickly you can become noseblind to it.
I don't smoke weed but I had a roommate in college that smoked in the apartment 24/hours a day. The first week was unbearable. I could barely breath, my clothes reeked of weed, even my books reeked of it. But, after that first week, I didn't even notice the smell. Yeah, when he lit up I'd notice it for a second but nothing more than that.
Enough time has passed that I'm no longer noseblind to it but I wish I still were. I can smell it when the car ahead of me is smoking, I can smell it when the person on the other side of the bar recently smoked, hell, I can smell it in my car as soon as I start to approach my neighboring state where it's legal. At my last house I was tearing my hair out trying to catch the skunk or fox that made my yard reek every night during the summer. Of course, eventually I realized it coincided with my neighbors college-aged kid coming home for summer break and smoking in their room.
Anyone that says that cigarette smoke, perfume, car exhaust, people's breath in general, smell to any degree that weed does to non-smokers is incredulous. Just because you smoke and you don't recognize it, doesn't mean that everyone around you can't.
That's just smoking in public. It's an issue regardless of what's being smoked.
Not really. Regular cigarette smoke is less intense and dissipates pretty quickly outdoors. Marijuana smoke is much stronger, lingers longer, and carries farther, so it impacts everyone nearby a lot more.
It's fine to dislike the smell, but I find cigarette smoke far more unappealing. I grew up in a time where everyone seemed to smoke everywhere. Catching a waft of weed every once in awhile is much more preferable.
I can't stand perfume. I absolutely hate it. The smell is strong and spreads everywhere. Some people in our community wear perfume while indoors. At the same time, my wife takes our newborn shopping. It’s absolutely unacceptable.
Yeah, people need to switch to edibles as a courtesy
It's not nearly as ubiquitous as car exhaust fumes/tyre wear pollution which I find to be a lot more objectionable as it's far more dangerous to us.
Classic whataboutism. The existence of problem A doesn’t cancel out problem B. Car exhaust being harmful doesn’t suddenly make strong marijuana smoke in public acceptable, especially around kids.
I don't think it's whataboutism to point out the far bigger problem. There's evidence to show that vehicle pollution leads to respiratory issues in children and certainly reduces life expectancy. Meanwhile cannabis smoke has not been shown to have anything near that level of toxicity and is certainly less common.
It hardly makes any sense to focus on the far smaller issue that doesn't seem to cause any issues apart from pearl clutching.
The problems can and do co-exist. The list is endless and that's why it's whataboutism.
I disagree as the air quality issue is dominated by vehicle pollution. The smell of cannabis in open areas is hardly even worth discussing as it's such a minor issue. Putting effort into addressing a minor issue when there's life threatening air pollution issues would be completely inappropriate and misguided.
Whataboutism would be more like comparing cannabis odour to people who fart in lifts.
I’ve noticed it California since legalization use has skyrocketed and everyday intelligence seems to have gone through the floor. Similar to if we as a society started day drinking regularly.
I see people smoke all day all the time now and while driving and it clearly affects their judgement. I don’t know why legalization lead to “no moderation at all” and “I smoke at work”
> I’ve noticed it California since legalization use has skyrocketed and everyday intelligence seems to have gone through the floor.
True, but I’m still outperforming the raised by iPad kids entering the workforce now. Any intelligence I’ve lost was not going towards anything that mattered anyway.
I live in MN where it’s effectively been decriminalized for years. I believe 100% it has had extremely negative effects on the general populace. I see it in myself and all of my Gen Z/millennial friends that smoke regularly. The amount of money I’ve wasted alone on weed is frankly disgusting, and it’s not looked down upon like it would be if I was at the liquor store every other day blowing my paychecks.
Agreed completely on the day drinking point. That’s actually what got me to quit initially years ago. I realized, would I be drinking right now before work? Hell no. So why am I okay with getting high?
Correlation does not imply causation. Society has bigger problems(probably).
I mean so is sugar, alchohol, synthetic opioids, ect. Pick your poison. Life is about trade-offs.
You don't actually have to pick any of them.
Sure but the article seem to be suggesting this is a free lunch.
Except no one is going to outright lie to you that alcohol is “medicine,” that it’s not addictive, and that it’s entirely healthy to consume.
But a glass of wine after dinner is good for your heart!
Let me counter this with all of my anecdata: I don't know a single pothead that improved compared to who they were (mentally especially, including cognitive function) compared to when I knew them before they started smoking pot. I'm sure they exist, I have not met them in person yet.
Same. The only person I know who consumes it and isnt slow brained is a guy that eats it once a year in a brownie at some guys birthday party, and not every year.
I've seen many. There are no shortage of successful people who say so themselves.
Read what any of your favorite musicians have to say about it. Check the science and testimony on it enhancing creativity and sensory experience, helping people see see themselves and the world from a new perspective - introspective development.
You know, the same sort of introspection that might make one wonder if your statement above says a lot more about you, and your values, than it does about cannabis enjoyers.
Carl Sagan was one example:
https://thereitis.org/mr-x-by-carl-sagan/
He originally wrote about it under a pseudonym for fear of professional consequences. Many such cases.
> There are no shortage of successful people who say so themselves.
Yes, I know some of those. But usually they are either very light users or they achieved their success before becoming heavy users.
I also know some pretty heavy users that are adamant that they are doing better than before but their environment does not usually agree. This is a thing that is fairly common with heavy drug users though.
Analogous to Dunning-Kruger. The drug user only perceives his experience as profound, but the perception is measured by a mind poorly positioned to judge the experience.
You know at least one
Hey buddy
Technically, not in person ;)
I know lots of people that smoke heavily and I've watched their trajectory over decades. It's a sad story really. I'm pretty sure if you manage it responsibly the benefits may well outweigh the downsides but over the long term it really adds up.
Of course, everybody ages, and people are not usually as sharp as they were in their twenties or earlier. But given that I also have access to a sizeable control group where I don't see that effect I figure it has to have some factual basis too large to be just handwaved away.
Feel free to correct the fact that we haven't met in person by the way, you & yours are always welcome here.
I know - I’m planning my europe visit this summer most likely!
Very nice, send me a heads up a few weeks in advance please.
However other research shows a concerning association between long-term, heavy cannabis use and an increased risk of dementia, including Alzheimer's disease. [1]
[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886010/
The OP's article screams "I failed to control for confounders". Not sure why it is being upvoted so heavily.
Yeah, this strikes me as just selecting against conservatism, which in turn correlates with worse health outcomes.
They call out moderation as being key
Interesting article, but immediately ran into one of my pet peeves:
> The work is published in the Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs.
"Alcohol and drugs" is like saying "beef and meat".
When you hear someone say “I do drugs” do you imagine them sitting at a bar to have a drink?
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
When I hear someone say "I do drugs," first I imagine that they're a fucking narcotics agent, and then I end the conversation.
Knowledge is being aware of the analogy of tomatoes not being treated like fruits even though they technically are.
Wisdom is understanding that if there was legislation on the matter, and people who ate, produced, or sold non-tomato fruits were hunted and deprived of their freedoms by the state on the basis that fruits are bad for society, then you would likely see similar frustrations expressed about an article title that includes the phrase "tomatoes and fruits" to distinguish them.
This is such a terrible analogy. Hunted?
Alcohol in moderation is relaxing. Most drugs, OTOH, when used at the doses that make them attractive to recreational drug users, impair reason, and impairing reason is not just stupid, but immoral. We can debate the particular methods by which the state regulates or otherwise deals with drug use, but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the criminalization of such drugs as such. No one has a right to take drugs (there is no right to immorality). This may seem alien to a culture whose emaciated understanding of morality is exhausted by the concept of consent. The law is a teacher, and it is good to teach people that recreational drug use (and drunkenness) is a bad thing. Like all immorality, it is an insult to one's dignity and humanity.
We can tolerate the impairment of reason as a proportionate side effect [0] (for instance, high doses of morphine given to terminally ill patients in extreme pain), but this is not recreational use.
[0] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/double-effect/
Alcohol impairs cognitive functions more than Marijuana when under high influence.
We know. But it's a problem because alcohol is one of the most dangerous and damaging drugs. It's basically just society grandfathering it in and all of us living in a state of cognitive dissonance.
re: the article itself, they concentrate only on brain regions which have high density of CB1 expression and that's reasonable. But CB1 is not the only CNS cannabinoid receptor (CB2 mostly expressed peripherally). There's also GPR55 which is activated by cannabinoids like THC. A little issue which could be addressed in future work.
Alcohol can be consumed without intoxication. Nobody smokes to not get high.
Tell that to all CBD users and people who use Marijuana to reduce anxieties or spasticity.
Also who drinks alcohol without wanting at least some of the intoxication effects?
I've gone to numerous tasting events where I spit out all of the wine. There may be hundreds of bottles being poured at a trade show and you can't really taste more than a handful if you are swallowing.
True, but you end up high anyway.
You would not drive in France for instance, because of the residual alcohol
Wittgenstein has an example, imagine you are on a construction site and someone says 'Slab!'
Do they mean 'That is a slab.' or 'Hand me that slab.'?
Context matters. There is no correct answer. There are no metaphysical truth particles that shake 'True!'. Expressivism, how you feel about the statement, is going to decide what you think.
Anyway, I used to intentionally say things like "I love drugs, although its specifically Caffeine."
Wisdom is knowing when not to put a tomato in a fruit salad.
https://cheflindseyfarr.com/marinated-tomato-stone-fruit-sal...
(I second the recommendation of adding burrata.)
Animals and dogs
Or a counterpoint, "humans and animals."
We see a distinction for that one, just like we do for alcohol.
you can't ignore societal context though, most people do not consider alcohol a drug at this point... same story with caffeine
we have to operate in people space
> most people do not consider alcohol a drug at this point
But that's presumably why the parent commenter spoke up in the first place.
Industry-fueled self-delusion can be intercepted if we make the effort to do so.
I would argue that making the case on an individual level in this context can be more off-putting than helpful, and can have a negative effect.
Spoken like a true alcoholic (former me would know)
There is a reason for this distinction. Alcohol in moderation is relaxing and can be enjoyable to the senses. Most drugs, and at the doses that make them appealing for recreational use, impair the exercise and function of reason and the sense faculties that inform it. (Drunkenness is bad for the same reason.) Given how central and essential to humanity reason is, that's an incredibly important distinction.
There is no chemical shortcut to brain health. If you have a neurotransmitter shortage, a substitution is suggested to bring it back. There is never a cannabis shortage or for that matter opioid or benzo and a surplus is harmful. Their use is justified only if another effect is desired (pain killing for cannabis and opioids or anxiolysis for benzo).
this is not a good study. it says that most cannabis use occured when young, and they then measure brains and cognitive test performance when older
this feels like reading tea leaves
Cannabis usage is linked to self-reported better cognitive function. But some new studies suggest it's not wise to do technical interviews while baked. Nobody can explain this paradox.
I smoked daily for years. I’m endlessly relieved that I no longer do. Quitting was like getting an almost immediate intelligence, memory, focus, and QoL boost.
They don't call it "dope" because it makes you smarter
Define "smart". "Your bring gets smart but your head gets dumb" - Smash Mouth
But they (or at least Harry J Anslinger) did make up the name "marijuana" just so that it sounds vaguely Mexican/Spanish in an attempt to link racism and drug enforcement.
There actually is a plausible mechanism here: various cannabinoids are anti-inflammatory and reduce excitotoxicity in the brain.
On the margin, this should reduce the risk of some brain diseases as you get older.
However as much as I love loud there are obvious downsides to daily use
Was it a controlled study or just correlation?
What is the point of having a study published in a journal when no one can read it? Creds?
It has no cred to me unless I can read it. Appeal to authority is the opposite of science.
Anyway, sounds like induction, it might be probabilistically true, but they don't have the theory to prove it. (Popper ruined me)
Looks like I picked a bad day to give up cannabis.
Moderation as found in /r/petioles is a middle ground that works for many people
I enjoy a good edible now and then, but this sounds like every popsci study that fails to reproduce.
Is this causation or correlation?
Dude, but what about like, correlation versus causation, man?
Weed is expensive. But not terribly addictive. Another words, a luxury product, but people will not usually forego necessities to get it like more addictive drugs.
I don't think there is any controversy there is at least a weak link between intelligence and access to luxury goods.
In other news, occasional cigar smokers have slightly lower cancer rates. It aint the cigars...
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Edit: those talking about price being cheap in US: the data is from UK biobank. Unclear to me if that's actually UK citizens, but prices in UK are significantly higher than those quoting legal weed state prices. It appears those downvoting / rebutting are attempting to strong-arm a US centric view into foreign sourced data.
Weed is expensive? Compared to alcohol, it's cheaper, considering how little of it you need to maintain the intoxication.
Weed was never a luxury substance. Cocaine and others are.
It’s cheap for ocassional use, yes. However, heavy users spend quite a bit for their habit since their tolerance level is shut. Also I never found it to be addictive but that’s my own bias, there are a lot of users who can’t go to sleep without it, not to mention daily and frequent use.
In NY an individual can grow up to 5 plants legally a year and that's really a lot.
Because the hemp laws were poorly written, this product was legal in all 50 states
https://cyclingfrog.com/
The 10mg THC drinks give a whiff of cannabis when you open one and produce an intoxication similar to smoking with an experience similar to drinking an alcoholic drink. It's more expensive than the cheapest beer, but similar to a reasonably priced wine or drink in a bar. Unfortunately these will be gone in most places by the end of 2026.
THC does not evaporate into the air in appreciable quantities. What you smell is terpenes, flavor compounds, or carbonation carrying aroma, not psychoactive THC...
Agreed. I will say that the 5 mg THC/10 mg CBD drinks don't have the same smell and I don't know if that is just the terpenes that ride along naturally or if they add flavoring to make the stronger drink stronger smelling. I'd say the 5/10 drink is really not worth the bother.
If you smoke weed regularly I'm not sure any of the 5/10mg edibles are particularly useful outside of diabetes. Health Canada puts a 10mg limit on THC extract for edible ingestion and personally I find it weird, people are consuming insane amounts of sugar eating gummies to get stoned due to tolerances. If you happened to be in Canada, there are a few companies that have snuck fully decarboxylated thc into the resin syringes you can get as "resin for smoking", BOXHOT Disty Dabber and Ellevia RSO can both be consumed edible out of the box and are considerably better than any other edible on the market, careful tho, a little goes a long way.
> It’s cheap for ocassional use
This can be said about any drug, but even then, heavy use of weed vs other drugs is absolutely cheaper, especially these days if you live in an area where it's legal and/or are willing to grow it.
I would expect the intelligence of sub-clinically addicted or non-addicted alcohol and cocaine users to also be above average.
Yeah lmao, prices fell to the floor, especially on the US west coast.
someone might be scamming you on weed prices man
Decent bud is cheaper than ever in most US states at least
> Another words
(in other words)
Big brained olds love this one weird trick.