Blog posts without dates on them are super frustrating. If this was written today I would have a litany of complaints about the details around EV charging.
If this was written 5 years ago they might have a little more leeway. Here's one:
> trying to force everyone to download janky apps just to play is disingenuous and short-sighted
The biggest networks do not require apps to use their chargers (excluding Tesla, who built a huge network with no screens and then decided to open it up without hardware retrofits). Some offer memberships which obviously use an app, but that's not surprising or relevant.
I really like both the e-Niro and the Kona EV for their "normal" car look and I did some hacking too. Wanted to play with the Web Bluetooth API and Svelte, so created the open source Niro Spy app (should work with your Kona too), works on iOS through BLE browser. It might be a good template for some OBD2 hacking, you can also check Open Vehicle Monitoring System repo and the evDash project.
The car is somewhat reliable on the battery side (still have SOH over 101% after 90k km / 50k miles), but the gearbox and motor bearings issue can be tricky to fix.
Also the MY2019 vehicles do lack remote climate controls and battery preconditioning (which I'm still trying to fix with the app).
For the original version released in 2013, range was a bit of a concern.
Later models, 120ah full electric version, the range is about 250km. In comparison to newer cars, not a lot, but considering you can buy newish used ones for under 15k, its not a bad deal if it fits your needs.
Funny how I'm downvoted for even mentioning an i3. I've also heard several comments insinuating that I must be gay for driving such a car. Are we still there in 2026?
don't read too much into a downvote here or there. as i read this the downvotes are already gone again. some people are just idiots. also some people just misclick.
I get downvoted to hell and gone for saying such controversial things as "AI doesn't really solve any problem I have", so I just assume people who downvote to disagree instead of commenting to explain why they disagree are too lazy or too stupid or too stoned to get enough of a spark across a synapse and not really worth caring about.
If I was in it for the karma I'd be in the billions by now.
To be eligible for a specific subsidy, the gas engine had to have less range than the better. So they electronically set the amount of gas you were allowed to use from the gas tank even though it held more. Sure the difference was only a half gallon or so but it's stealing your gasoline, and making it staler.
It was either 1.9 or 2.4 gallons depending on the model year, but they physically had the same gas tank.
the thing that makes them unreliable is lack of use. when you leave some gas in there for 6 months because you never travel farther than the grocery store, when you actually use the engine it goes and sucks up a bunch of trash expired gas.
Range extender was definitely a requirement when I got mine in ‘19. But that’s because I did not have reliable charging available in the area.
It also came in handy for a bad road trip (charging stations more than my range apart, so I couldn’t otherwise get there from here, but hold state of charge kept it up at 75% with frequent gas stops)
Glad it worked out for you. I am in South Africa so there still aren't many charging stations but we're getting there. Most people charge from their houses though and that's what I do as well. With solar it's practically free to drive around town, school runs etc.
This is the kind of hacking / upgrades I’d love to see. All in cost was about $6k when I last checked probably a little more now. You get a pack teardown, and new CATL cells. Range goes to 400km~.
That is very cool! I can see myself keeping this car for a long time. It's just so well built and the interior is also something to behold (compared to a lot of cars).
Range is not an issue at the moment (we have a Land Cruiser for longer trips) but once the batteries get really old this would be a great option.
At some point later I got around to playing with DC fast charging ... That market still has a long way to go as far as sorting out its business model, as billing based on time vs energy is completely unfair ... An excuse that's offered less and less often is that pricing by kilowatt-hours delivered is prohibited in some states by utility regulatory rules.
I didn't know they were billing for DC charging in the US based on Time instead of kwh. Thats odd. In Europe its just kwh.
In the EU, yes. When you go to those dark corners of Europe that never achieved the membership, all bets are off.
In Montenegro and Serbia they charge per minute because the only entity allowed to sell kwh's is the national electricity company (in Serbia it's owned by Russia, so it is heavily legally protected).
In Italy there are enough chargers that charge for both kWh and time connected. kWh for what you use and connected to discourage being connected all the time.
No need to go further than dead center EU to see chargers where the cost has a time component, and an energy component, and even a (small) one time fee. Sometimes the charger is inside a paid parking, there that comes on top. These aren't shady operators either either, just the way they saw fit to prevent abuse and make more money.
Some have reasonable limits to prevent abuse [0], others just charge the customer as much as they can get away with.
Time based billing is almost completely eliminated. It was always state-by-state, due to local laws not being setup for dispensing of electricity as a business model.
My understanding is that some US states have regulations against selling power by the kWh unless you are a registered power utility. This is an old regulation meant to be about landlords marking up electric rates to tenants etc.
Most states have updated their laws to account for EV charging providers, and in those states we pay per kWh.
Arguably it should be both. Sitting and occupying a DC fast charging booth, especially once you're not charging at the full rate, represents an opportunity cost since someone else could be using it.
I used a Tesla charger (as a non-Tesla driver) recently. I think their pricing model is pretty good: pay per kWh (varies between peak and off-peak), and if the station is busy they can impose a "congestion charge" for anyone occupying a charger and not charging, or charging above 80% when it's not necessary for their journey (presumably only works for Teslas where the satnav knows about your journey and charge locations).
I know Electrify America used to, but in recent years, I haven't come across any time-based chargers (but I haven't used a charger outside of Texas since 2022, so may be an issue in only certain states, as other comments have alluded to)
Later on ( https://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/ev/dcfc/app-problem.h... ) he talks about the app problem, and I believe the UK and possibly the EU are mandating that chargers must support contactless payment, so you can just do it with your regular bank card.
I've never paid by the minute. Tesla Superchargers often deliver less energy per minute when they're busy (sometimes much less!) and it would be frustrating if they charged per-minute.
Other systems I've seen (Chargepoint) also seem to be energy-based.
The Supercharger network is well done. It's a shame that they took this long to open up to other car models because they really do get a lot of things right.
Does this also apply to non-Teslas? I'm guessing there's a bit of two-way communication from car to charger, for authentication/billing purposes but also for congestion fees like charging beyond 80%. Does the app notify you to take your car off the charger?
I understand the reasoning but sympathize with the luddites who shun all this technology. Imagine going on a road trip with your EV, stopping for a bite to eat and refresh while putting your car on the charger. Maybe there was a long line or you needed a long bathroom stop, so your car sits at the charger "too long" and you get a nice penalty.
It's almost all by the kWh here, but perusing PlugShare I've seen a few level 2 chargers here and there that charge by the minute. Usually that's a sign of a charger that was set up a while ago and is owned by someone who hasn't checked on it since.
I think fast chargers in rush hour times will also bill for time to discourage long/slow charges on them. Naturally that'll vary on whoever sets the costs, but it does exist in EU as well.
Mowt states have changed the laws in the past 10 years. When nobody (other that lead acid convestions done at home) had an ev it did't matter that the law didn't allow for charging by kwh as nobody other than a utility wanted to do that anyway. When evs changed to mainstream laws changed. There are still some free public chargers near me from before the law change (at 6kw max charge rate they not often used and so don't cost them much to keep it.
Same, stopped there. One of those odd pieces where the author is completely full of themselves and hostile, yet somehow decries other people’s attitudes (“as attitudes have degenerated, I found the ability to blind people driving behind me to be a critical safety feature”).
I clicked on the link for the "Yuppie button" and confirmed that the guy is a nut. The amount of effort required to create and install a device that flashes all of your tail lights at a tailgater is not something an average person is going to do.
Blog posts without dates on them are super frustrating. If this was written today I would have a litany of complaints about the details around EV charging.
If this was written 5 years ago they might have a little more leeway. Here's one:
> trying to force everyone to download janky apps just to play is disingenuous and short-sighted
The biggest networks do not require apps to use their chargers (excluding Tesla, who built a huge network with no screens and then decided to open it up without hardware retrofits). Some offer memberships which obviously use an app, but that's not surprising or relevant.
For people who are not aware: this is the same Hobbit as
https://seclists.org/bugtraq/1995/Oct/28
I really like both the e-Niro and the Kona EV for their "normal" car look and I did some hacking too. Wanted to play with the Web Bluetooth API and Svelte, so created the open source Niro Spy app (should work with your Kona too), works on iOS through BLE browser. It might be a good template for some OBD2 hacking, you can also check Open Vehicle Monitoring System repo and the evDash project.
The car is somewhat reliable on the battery side (still have SOH over 101% after 90k km / 50k miles), but the gearbox and motor bearings issue can be tricky to fix.
Also the MY2019 vehicles do lack remote climate controls and battery preconditioning (which I'm still trying to fix with the app).
Recently bought a second hand BMW i3 - what a cool car! Not planning to 'hack' it but nice to read about ideas.
I've seen videos of that car... don't they only have like 40 miles of range, and the range extender only holds like 5 gallons of fuel?
For the original version released in 2013, range was a bit of a concern.
Later models, 120ah full electric version, the range is about 250km. In comparison to newer cars, not a lot, but considering you can buy newish used ones for under 15k, its not a bad deal if it fits your needs.
Funny how I'm downvoted for even mentioning an i3. I've also heard several comments insinuating that I must be gay for driving such a car. Are we still there in 2026?
don't read too much into a downvote here or there. as i read this the downvotes are already gone again. some people are just idiots. also some people just misclick.
I get downvoted to hell and gone for saying such controversial things as "AI doesn't really solve any problem I have", so I just assume people who downvote to disagree instead of commenting to explain why they disagree are too lazy or too stupid or too stoned to get enough of a spark across a synapse and not really worth caring about.
If I was in it for the karma I'd be in the billions by now.
Complaining about downvotes is boring, don't do it
To be eligible for a specific subsidy, the gas engine had to have less range than the better. So they electronically set the amount of gas you were allowed to use from the gas tank even though it held more. Sure the difference was only a half gallon or so but it's stealing your gasoline, and making it staler.
It was either 1.9 or 2.4 gallons depending on the model year, but they physically had the same gas tank.
You don't want the range extender - it makes it fiddly and potentially unreliable.
As for the range, I'm getting about 110 miles of range. It depends how you drive. This is the 94Ah battery, the later models had more range.
the thing that makes them unreliable is lack of use. when you leave some gas in there for 6 months because you never travel farther than the grocery store, when you actually use the engine it goes and sucks up a bunch of trash expired gas.
Range extender was definitely a requirement when I got mine in ‘19. But that’s because I did not have reliable charging available in the area.
It also came in handy for a bad road trip (charging stations more than my range apart, so I couldn’t otherwise get there from here, but hold state of charge kept it up at 75% with frequent gas stops)
Glad it worked out for you. I am in South Africa so there still aren't many charging stations but we're getting there. Most people charge from their houses though and that's what I do as well. With solar it's practically free to drive around town, school runs etc.
In an interesting turn of events there is a pack upgrade for the i3 that gives it more range than it started with!
https://mtgbattery.com/
This is the kind of hacking / upgrades I’d love to see. All in cost was about $6k when I last checked probably a little more now. You get a pack teardown, and new CATL cells. Range goes to 400km~.
That is very cool! I can see myself keeping this car for a long time. It's just so well built and the interior is also something to behold (compared to a lot of cars). Range is not an issue at the moment (we have a Land Cruiser for longer trips) but once the batteries get really old this would be a great option.
At some point later I got around to playing with DC fast charging ... That market still has a long way to go as far as sorting out its business model, as billing based on time vs energy is completely unfair ... An excuse that's offered less and less often is that pricing by kilowatt-hours delivered is prohibited in some states by utility regulatory rules.
I didn't know they were billing for DC charging in the US based on Time instead of kwh. Thats odd. In Europe its just kwh.
> In Europe its just kwh.
In the EU, yes. When you go to those dark corners of Europe that never achieved the membership, all bets are off.
In Montenegro and Serbia they charge per minute because the only entity allowed to sell kwh's is the national electricity company (in Serbia it's owned by Russia, so it is heavily legally protected).
In Italy there are enough chargers that charge for both kWh and time connected. kWh for what you use and connected to discourage being connected all the time.
No need to go further than dead center EU to see chargers where the cost has a time component, and an energy component, and even a (small) one time fee. Sometimes the charger is inside a paid parking, there that comes on top. These aren't shady operators either either, just the way they saw fit to prevent abuse and make more money.
Some have reasonable limits to prevent abuse [0], others just charge the customer as much as they can get away with.
[0] https://www.tanke.io/oeffentliche-ladestationen/
Is abuse here just parking in the charger and leaving for a few hours, assumingly skipping any parking fee if you're only paying for kWh?
Abuse means leaving your car parked while it is not actively charging.
Fine to leave for a few hours if your car needs a few hours to charge fully.
Not fine to leave for a few hours if your car was 15 minutes from full.
Time based billing is almost completely eliminated. It was always state-by-state, due to local laws not being setup for dispensing of electricity as a business model.
My understanding is that some US states have regulations against selling power by the kWh unless you are a registered power utility. This is an old regulation meant to be about landlords marking up electric rates to tenants etc.
Most states have updated their laws to account for EV charging providers, and in those states we pay per kWh.
Arguably it should be both. Sitting and occupying a DC fast charging booth, especially once you're not charging at the full rate, represents an opportunity cost since someone else could be using it.
I used a Tesla charger (as a non-Tesla driver) recently. I think their pricing model is pretty good: pay per kWh (varies between peak and off-peak), and if the station is busy they can impose a "congestion charge" for anyone occupying a charger and not charging, or charging above 80% when it's not necessary for their journey (presumably only works for Teslas where the satnav knows about your journey and charge locations).
> especially once you're not charging at the full rate
I don't think you want that as no car will be able to charge at 250kW for very long for example.
And I believe we're starting to see even higher peak charging rates. As always, there's no simple answers
I know Electrify America used to, but in recent years, I haven't come across any time-based chargers (but I haven't used a charger outside of Texas since 2022, so may be an issue in only certain states, as other comments have alluded to)
Later on ( https://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/ev/dcfc/app-problem.h... ) he talks about the app problem, and I believe the UK and possibly the EU are mandating that chargers must support contactless payment, so you can just do it with your regular bank card.
I've never paid by the minute. Tesla Superchargers often deliver less energy per minute when they're busy (sometimes much less!) and it would be frustrating if they charged per-minute.
Other systems I've seen (Chargepoint) also seem to be energy-based.
The Supercharger network is well done. It's a shame that they took this long to open up to other car models because they really do get a lot of things right.
Careful. Some superchargers will now charge you extra per minute as soon as you cross 80% capacity (regardless of your charge limit).
Does this also apply to non-Teslas? I'm guessing there's a bit of two-way communication from car to charger, for authentication/billing purposes but also for congestion fees like charging beyond 80%. Does the app notify you to take your car off the charger?
I understand the reasoning but sympathize with the luddites who shun all this technology. Imagine going on a road trip with your EV, stopping for a bite to eat and refresh while putting your car on the charger. Maybe there was a long line or you needed a long bathroom stop, so your car sits at the charger "too long" and you get a nice penalty.
It's almost all by the kWh here, but perusing PlugShare I've seen a few level 2 chargers here and there that charge by the minute. Usually that's a sign of a charger that was set up a while ago and is owned by someone who hasn't checked on it since.
I think fast chargers in rush hour times will also bill for time to discourage long/slow charges on them. Naturally that'll vary on whoever sets the costs, but it does exist in EU as well.
In Europe, sometimes it's just kWh, other times it's kWh and time. After charging is done, it's just time.
I’ve charged in 30 states, it’s kwh every single time.
Mowt states have changed the laws in the past 10 years. When nobody (other that lead acid convestions done at home) had an ev it did't matter that the law didn't allow for charging by kwh as nobody other than a utility wanted to do that anyway. When evs changed to mainstream laws changed. There are still some free public chargers near me from before the law change (at 6kw max charge rate they not often used and so don't cost them much to keep it.
> [...] due to some dipshit blonde not paying attention [...]
Wow, instantly stopped reading after this. I can't comprehend how someone would even remotely have the courage writing such in a public posting.
Same, stopped there. One of those odd pieces where the author is completely full of themselves and hostile, yet somehow decries other people’s attitudes (“as attitudes have degenerated, I found the ability to blind people driving behind me to be a critical safety feature”).
Weird bit of self-righteous misanthropy.
I clicked on the link for the "Yuppie button" and confirmed that the guy is a nut. The amount of effort required to create and install a device that flashes all of your tail lights at a tailgater is not something an average person is going to do.
This guy should get a medal for having the balls to fight ass hole drivers.
Yeah, scrolled down to that and closed the tab, it left a bad taste in my mouth.
Elsewhere in the site he publishes her name and address.
me too. It's like it was written in 1980.
That's an interesting view to take.
What would you rather they said instead, to avoid offending your delicate sensibilities?
For me, just removing "blonde" would be fine.
Maybe a dipshit blonde wasn't paying attention and caused the problem? Sometimes facts really do follow stereotypes.
There is a way to make the Android Auto work wirelessly
Yeah, I have a $60 dongle that does it in my Kona EV
I think talking about "hacking" a car without a mention of OpenAI is not really hacking: https://comma.ai/vehicles#hyundai
Installing a non-standard button that hijack the light control of the car to light all of the rear one is not hacking ? https://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/ev/yb.html
I appreciate the autopilot effort of comma, but if this isn't hacking in the most classic sense of the word I don't know what is.