I type 120 wpm using a bizarre method I acquired through trial and error as a kid. It uses mostly my thumbs and index fingers and has been described by observers as "disconcerting". But it works great for me, and about perfectly matches the speed of my thoughts. My typing teachers hated it. It's touch typing in the sense that I don't need to look at the keys, but it is definitely Not Right.
It does mean that I can't use "ergonomic" or split hand keyboards easily, though.
I have a couple different inexpensive Aula and similar mechanical keyboards I prefer to use.
This sounds like me. I've been described as "high speed hunt and peck". I have slowed down a bit in the last decade or so, but I can still type fast enough for everything I want to do. I've had no reason to pursue anything different because it's not an impediment to my work.
I'd like to how the incidence of repetitive strain injury from typing compares between populations who follow a rigorous technique versus personalized. I've never had the slightest discomfort typing, albeit I'm sure I'm not in the upper echelons of typing quantity per unit of time either.
Try taking 3 1 minute typing tests back to back at your full speed and maybe you'll feel a little something. Any discomforts I had mainly revealed themselves under heavy loads like this. If you never type a lot in a row, it can be easy to miss
I did similar as a kid, weird random typing, mostly left hand, thumb used for some of the letters, etc. If you're willing to dedicate 2-4 weeks of fully immersed proper typing, you can definitely undo the old habits. Takes a bit longer to regain your old speeds, but it's mainly the very beginning that is frustrating. Whether that's worth it is hard to say. I use both shift keys now, and a split ergonomic keyboard. The numrow is easier to hit accurately as I have internalized the placement as well as the rows of letters after a lot more typing practice (columnar stagger rather than row stagger also helps, I think, I slide my fingers straight up and know which numbers are there).
120 wpm using mostly thumb and index fingers sounds insane to me. I type using standard touch typing and can only get to about 60 wpm. I've always been a bit of a slow typist. Can I ask how you measured the 120 wpm?
The whole premise of "correct" typing on a traditional keyboard is absurd. It's trying to force good ergonomics into a system that is simply incompatible with it. You're better off either making yourself compatible with the system, or vice versa.
I type "incorrectly" on traditional qwerty keyboards, too. I also type "correctly" on my split ergonomic keyboard, using the workman layout. As far as I can tell, I'm not any faster with either; but I definitely enjoy using the ergonomic keyboard more.
I'm a fan of scissor switch keyboards, which I think makes me a bit odd - I got used to them from laptops and now I have an MX Keys Mini that I really like. I like the short travel and the tactile nature of them - I tried a slim mechanical (Nuphy Air75) but it still slowed me down considerably and was uncomfortable. I touch type but not home-row, so maybe my chaotic typing style doesn't work on heavier keys.
Hey, me too! I do touch typing with home row and tried using mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Brown switches, but eventually switched to scissor switches. I like them for the same reasons as you.
I never learnt how to touch-type, until I moved to a different keyboard layout (namely bepo [0]).
I recommend finding a good keyboard you enjoy using, but it's a bit annoying if you need to carry it around. Whatever you do, don't be afraid to try some ortholinear versions or split ones!
I sometimes like to use dictation nowadays, but I found out I tend to be much more concise when I type, compared to when I dictate (but thank god for easily available great dictation systems nowadays! [1]).
How do people (especially programmers) actually type )_+={}\'"
I know the touch typing says they're all typed by pinky, but after so many years it still doesn't feel right for me. Why is the weakest finger in charge of so many keys?
I guess, having just tried it, I use my pinky for []. But, it is not so bad, realistically the actions are
Hit [type whatever goes in here, hit ]
So it isn’t really a repetitive action or limited by the rate at which I can hit brackets I think even for programmers who use weird punctuation, a file should still mostly not be punctuation.
Tangentially related to the lack of computer literacy in younger generations, but there are a lot of speed demons on their phones these days. I have high confidence that there are more people in the US that can type faster than 50WPM with the default Android or iOS keyboard than a physical keyboard. At this point I would bet on a cheap phone shaped USB touchscreen to use as a keyboard with a PC. It would be a cool Kickstarter project if its not already before getting cloned by 6-7 companies if successful.
Also looking into using my phone as a keyboard as a write this comment too. I don't know why I have not looked into it sooner, but it seems like a no-brainer now that I am writing this out.
I bought the same keyboard when I was a teenager as my first "real" keyboard!
These days I have a ZSA Moonlander. I adore it! I love how easy it is to program it without any software installed and it's been phenomenal to customize it to fit me perfectly.
I just changed all the switches out (in order to be quieter than my stock Cherry MX Brown switches) and replaced them with a set of Gazzew U4 switches. I'm _shocked_ at how far mechanical switches have come along since the days of Cherry dominance. They're super quiet and still have an awesome tactile feel!
My journey went from using membrane keyboards (not knowing there was anything else available), to finding out about mechanical keyboards after watching a game streamer and his clacky keyboard, to going out and buying one...only to find out it was a membrane keyboard that was marketed as mechanical-like (!). After a few proper mechanical keyboards (trying to chase the 'thock'), then to low-profile, I'm now on a low-profile split mechanical keyboard, and I think this format is end game for me. The split helps a lot with ergonomics and just feels so natural, and the ortholinear setup just makes sense, despite the few weeks it took me to get used to it.
I was skeptical about the split keyboard, and living in an area that has no stores where I could try it out, I ended up buying a relatively cheap one from AliExpress. I swapped in my own switches and keycaps, and now it feels amazing to type on.
Being able to lean back on my chair while typing with each side sitting on the arm rest is amazing
Mavis Beacon thought me to touch type on my Amiga as a kid, and I'm grateful to her. In recent years I've been using a Logitech membrane keyboard. It's great for a membrane but mostly it's quiet. I work at night and that's a hard requirement. I'm looking for a mechanical as quiet as the Logitech and it's a struggle. Feels like there is a gap in the market for (really) quiet mechanicals.
Does anyone here use a numpad? What for? I made my own macropad[1] but I struggle to find a use, the only thing I use it for is CAD shortcut keys. Any ideas are welcome!
The number row is too wide and too offset on a staggered keyboard to really work for me. I'd be interested in trying a full-width ortholinear keyboard, but can't find any.
Oh durr, I forgot about that. I have remapped tilde so when it's held down it turns the right half of my keyboard into a numpad, so I use that for numbers. I guess I was more asking if anyone uses macropads.
Yeah, I use a similar utility, plus I've built a custom QMK-based keyboard that has extra shortcut layers. I think macropads might still be useful for per-app shortcut layers, but in practice I don't find myself using it that much.
I don't use a numpad, but a friend of mine swears by them for playing roguelikes. It makes it much easier to move diagonally in a single turn.
If you play any games with keyboard and mouse, you could bind some letters/numbers from the right half of the keyboard and then place the macropad on the left so you don't have to take your hand off the mouse to hit anything.
For another idea, you could bind pgup/pgdn or scroll wheel up and down for scrolling webpages, IRC backlog, etc.
I do when I'm using a keyboard that has one, for numeric input, but I don't do this often enough to prefer it to the smaller form factor of a tenkeyless keyboard.
My usual layout, left to right, is Magic Trackpad, tenkeyless keyboard, mouse on mousepad cut down to roughly the size of a Magic Trackpad (with a larger mousepad on hand for gaming and other precision applications).
Quite a bit - I have a bunch of custom shortcuts for musical notation (adding dynamics, expression, etc.) for rapidly entering music into my notation software.
As a 90s phone user where you text on one it feel like a fast way to type a credit card number or similar. Pretty rare use case with modern keychains and password managers though.
>no mention of Dvorak or Colemak? Let's have that eternal discussion again!
I prefer Workman. Used to use Dvorak. Did not see much point to Colemak or its Mod DH variant by the time I was open to switching again, Workman set out to solve those issues in its original design. To anyone coming from Qwerty these days (Workman only came out in 2010), I would just recommend skipping over Dvorak and Colemak. You can find even more esoteric layouts, but Workman is in a bit of a goldilocks zone where it's available in some OSes/keyboards by default and isn't impossible to find keycaps for (often the "colevrak" kits cover it).
>Swap Caps and Ctrl
I never liked binding caps to Ctrl or Esc, but I do bind it to Compose in my OS these days. What I'd instead recommend is getting an ergonomic keyboard with a thumb cluster, like the Pinky4 or Iris, and putting your modifiers there. My Ctrl, Alt, and Super keys are all thumb keys now and even the leftmost of them is offset a similar amount to where Alt is on a traditional keyboard, so all very comfortable to press. I also have backspace, space, and enter on thumb keys.
>use Emacs or vi keybindings,
Strongly agreed, this is huge. Vi especially as you can avoid most chords, a bit like Sticky Keys in Windows, except not awful and not something you activated by accident. I spent considerable time with Spacemacs as well as evil-mode in my own config at one point. Back to (neo)vim now, but all great choices, all better than using nano or a CUA binds editor.
I use Colemak DH for many years and Dvorak before that and I am of an opinion that alternative layouts are way overrated. I even somewhat regret inventing so much time in learning them. QWERTY is just fine!
The matter I want to preach about tho are split ortolinear keyboards. I believe absolutely every typist should use them. Conventional keyboards are just bad from ergonomics perspective and eventually it’d have a toll on your wrists health. And many of these keyboards stores key mappings directly on the chip so no need to mess with weird mapping software.
Having said that, my split keyboard is one of the best investments I did in my life.
I could never see the need to rebind Ctrl to Caps Lock (and I do use Emacs). Whenever it's time to press Ctrl, I curl my pinky and press that key with my pinky's distal joint. I did, however, swap Fn and the Global key on my Mac.
I think that's reason enough to rebind Ctrl to Caps Lock. I used to do the same, but why go to the trouble when I can remap Caps Lock once and be done with it?
Since then, it does not really matter which keyboard I use. Now I have a reddragon keyboard (Redragon K552 Mechanical Gaming Keyboard, 87-Key Compact). I picked that up a while ago because it does not use much space on the table/desk I have.
I type 120 wpm using a bizarre method I acquired through trial and error as a kid. It uses mostly my thumbs and index fingers and has been described by observers as "disconcerting". But it works great for me, and about perfectly matches the speed of my thoughts. My typing teachers hated it. It's touch typing in the sense that I don't need to look at the keys, but it is definitely Not Right.
It does mean that I can't use "ergonomic" or split hand keyboards easily, though.
I have a couple different inexpensive Aula and similar mechanical keyboards I prefer to use.
This sounds like me. I've been described as "high speed hunt and peck". I have slowed down a bit in the last decade or so, but I can still type fast enough for everything I want to do. I've had no reason to pursue anything different because it's not an impediment to my work.
I'd like to how the incidence of repetitive strain injury from typing compares between populations who follow a rigorous technique versus personalized. I've never had the slightest discomfort typing, albeit I'm sure I'm not in the upper echelons of typing quantity per unit of time either.
Try taking 3 1 minute typing tests back to back at your full speed and maybe you'll feel a little something. Any discomforts I had mainly revealed themselves under heavy loads like this. If you never type a lot in a row, it can be easy to miss
I did similar as a kid, weird random typing, mostly left hand, thumb used for some of the letters, etc. If you're willing to dedicate 2-4 weeks of fully immersed proper typing, you can definitely undo the old habits. Takes a bit longer to regain your old speeds, but it's mainly the very beginning that is frustrating. Whether that's worth it is hard to say. I use both shift keys now, and a split ergonomic keyboard. The numrow is easier to hit accurately as I have internalized the placement as well as the rows of letters after a lot more typing practice (columnar stagger rather than row stagger also helps, I think, I slide my fingers straight up and know which numbers are there).
Yeah, I've been told this. And I can type the "right" way at like 40-60 wpm. But I haven't seen any real reason to bother.
120 wpm using mostly thumb and index fingers sounds insane to me. I type using standard touch typing and can only get to about 60 wpm. I've always been a bit of a slow typist. Can I ask how you measured the 120 wpm?
Just the standard online typing tests you can find by googling. In fairness, 120wpm is a maximum. I'm often slower than that. But always over 100.
The whole premise of "correct" typing on a traditional keyboard is absurd. It's trying to force good ergonomics into a system that is simply incompatible with it. You're better off either making yourself compatible with the system, or vice versa.
I type "incorrectly" on traditional qwerty keyboards, too. I also type "correctly" on my split ergonomic keyboard, using the workman layout. As far as I can tell, I'm not any faster with either; but I definitely enjoy using the ergonomic keyboard more.
I'm a fan of scissor switch keyboards, which I think makes me a bit odd - I got used to them from laptops and now I have an MX Keys Mini that I really like. I like the short travel and the tactile nature of them - I tried a slim mechanical (Nuphy Air75) but it still slowed me down considerably and was uncomfortable. I touch type but not home-row, so maybe my chaotic typing style doesn't work on heavier keys.
Hey, me too! I do touch typing with home row and tried using mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Brown switches, but eventually switched to scissor switches. I like them for the same reasons as you.
I never learnt how to touch-type, until I moved to a different keyboard layout (namely bepo [0]).
I recommend finding a good keyboard you enjoy using, but it's a bit annoying if you need to carry it around. Whatever you do, don't be afraid to try some ortholinear versions or split ones!
I sometimes like to use dictation nowadays, but I found out I tend to be much more concise when I type, compared to when I dictate (but thank god for easily available great dictation systems nowadays! [1]).
[0]: https://bepo.fr/wiki/Accueil
[1]: although, dictating terminal commands or code is too much of a hassle
How do people (especially programmers) actually type )_+={}\'"
I know the touch typing says they're all typed by pinky, but after so many years it still doesn't feel right for me. Why is the weakest finger in charge of so many keys?
I have "Shift space" remapped to underscore as that was my biggest annoyance. The rest I've made peace with (though not ergonomic).
I guess, having just tried it, I use my pinky for []. But, it is not so bad, realistically the actions are
So it isn’t really a repetitive action or limited by the rate at which I can hit brackets I think even for programmers who use weird punctuation, a file should still mostly not be punctuation.Tangentially related to the lack of computer literacy in younger generations, but there are a lot of speed demons on their phones these days. I have high confidence that there are more people in the US that can type faster than 50WPM with the default Android or iOS keyboard than a physical keyboard. At this point I would bet on a cheap phone shaped USB touchscreen to use as a keyboard with a PC. It would be a cool Kickstarter project if its not already before getting cloned by 6-7 companies if successful.
Also looking into using my phone as a keyboard as a write this comment too. I don't know why I have not looked into it sooner, but it seems like a no-brainer now that I am writing this out.
I bought the same keyboard when I was a teenager as my first "real" keyboard!
These days I have a ZSA Moonlander. I adore it! I love how easy it is to program it without any software installed and it's been phenomenal to customize it to fit me perfectly.
I just changed all the switches out (in order to be quieter than my stock Cherry MX Brown switches) and replaced them with a set of Gazzew U4 switches. I'm _shocked_ at how far mechanical switches have come along since the days of Cherry dominance. They're super quiet and still have an awesome tactile feel!
My journey went from using membrane keyboards (not knowing there was anything else available), to finding out about mechanical keyboards after watching a game streamer and his clacky keyboard, to going out and buying one...only to find out it was a membrane keyboard that was marketed as mechanical-like (!). After a few proper mechanical keyboards (trying to chase the 'thock'), then to low-profile, I'm now on a low-profile split mechanical keyboard, and I think this format is end game for me. The split helps a lot with ergonomics and just feels so natural, and the ortholinear setup just makes sense, despite the few weeks it took me to get used to it.
I was skeptical about the split keyboard, and living in an area that has no stores where I could try it out, I ended up buying a relatively cheap one from AliExpress. I swapped in my own switches and keycaps, and now it feels amazing to type on.
Being able to lean back on my chair while typing with each side sitting on the arm rest is amazing
Mavis Beacon thought me to touch type on my Amiga as a kid, and I'm grateful to her. In recent years I've been using a Logitech membrane keyboard. It's great for a membrane but mostly it's quiet. I work at night and that's a hard requirement. I'm looking for a mechanical as quiet as the Logitech and it's a struggle. Feels like there is a gap in the market for (really) quiet mechanicals.
I'll be very curious to see if my research on typing practice [1] will still be relevant in the era of LLMs...
[1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3373165.3373177
Does anyone here use a numpad? What for? I made my own macropad[1] but I struggle to find a use, the only thing I use it for is CAD shortcut keys. Any ideas are welcome!
[1] https://immich.home.stavros.io/share/GE_noaUx1_cayK9WDVvzutr...
> Does anyone here use a numpad?
Yes.
> What for?
Inputting numbers.
The number row is too wide and too offset on a staggered keyboard to really work for me. I'd be interested in trying a full-width ortholinear keyboard, but can't find any.
Oh durr, I forgot about that. I have remapped tilde so when it's held down it turns the right half of my keyboard into a numpad, so I use that for numbers. I guess I was more asking if anyone uses macropads.
I've personally replaced keymacros by things like Alfred's workflows (or Raycast's): aka a universal command palette.
It's usually very fast to type "cmd-space", and then type 3-4 letters to find the macro I want.
Yeah, I use a similar utility, plus I've built a custom QMK-based keyboard that has extra shortcut layers. I think macropads might still be useful for per-app shortcut layers, but in practice I don't find myself using it that much.
I don't use a numpad, but a friend of mine swears by them for playing roguelikes. It makes it much easier to move diagonally in a single turn.
If you play any games with keyboard and mouse, you could bind some letters/numbers from the right half of the keyboard and then place the macropad on the left so you don't have to take your hand off the mouse to hit anything.
For another idea, you could bind pgup/pgdn or scroll wheel up and down for scrolling webpages, IRC backlog, etc.
Roguelikes are a great use case. I used to play Castle of the Winds all the time with a number pad, Shift+7913 fast movement FTW.
Hmm that's a very good use case, thanks! I'll keep it in mind for next time, I think it wouldn't have occurred to me if you hadn't said it.
Same with MUDs: a numpad is a critical piece of kit for getting around those rooms with north/northeast/east style exits.
True, but also thank god for speedwalking.
I do when I'm using a keyboard that has one, for numeric input, but I don't do this often enough to prefer it to the smaller form factor of a tenkeyless keyboard.
My usual layout, left to right, is Magic Trackpad, tenkeyless keyboard, mouse on mousepad cut down to roughly the size of a Magic Trackpad (with a larger mousepad on hand for gaming and other precision applications).
Quite a bit - I have a bunch of custom shortcuts for musical notation (adding dynamics, expression, etc.) for rapidly entering music into my notation software.
As a 90s phone user where you text on one it feel like a fast way to type a credit card number or similar. Pretty rare use case with modern keychains and password managers though.
Man, T9 was the best though.
The Goldtouch split keyboards worked wonders for me.
What, an article on typing and keyboards, and no mention of Dvorak or Colemak? Let's have that eternal discussion again!
Swap Caps and Ctrl, use Emacs or vi keybindings, and save your wrist from moving to the arrow keys!
>no mention of Dvorak or Colemak? Let's have that eternal discussion again!
I prefer Workman. Used to use Dvorak. Did not see much point to Colemak or its Mod DH variant by the time I was open to switching again, Workman set out to solve those issues in its original design. To anyone coming from Qwerty these days (Workman only came out in 2010), I would just recommend skipping over Dvorak and Colemak. You can find even more esoteric layouts, but Workman is in a bit of a goldilocks zone where it's available in some OSes/keyboards by default and isn't impossible to find keycaps for (often the "colevrak" kits cover it).
>Swap Caps and Ctrl
I never liked binding caps to Ctrl or Esc, but I do bind it to Compose in my OS these days. What I'd instead recommend is getting an ergonomic keyboard with a thumb cluster, like the Pinky4 or Iris, and putting your modifiers there. My Ctrl, Alt, and Super keys are all thumb keys now and even the leftmost of them is offset a similar amount to where Alt is on a traditional keyboard, so all very comfortable to press. I also have backspace, space, and enter on thumb keys.
>use Emacs or vi keybindings,
Strongly agreed, this is huge. Vi especially as you can avoid most chords, a bit like Sticky Keys in Windows, except not awful and not something you activated by accident. I spent considerable time with Spacemacs as well as evil-mode in my own config at one point. Back to (neo)vim now, but all great choices, all better than using nano or a CUA binds editor.
I use Colemak DH for many years and Dvorak before that and I am of an opinion that alternative layouts are way overrated. I even somewhat regret inventing so much time in learning them. QWERTY is just fine!
The matter I want to preach about tho are split ortolinear keyboards. I believe absolutely every typist should use them. Conventional keyboards are just bad from ergonomics perspective and eventually it’d have a toll on your wrists health. And many of these keyboards stores key mappings directly on the chip so no need to mess with weird mapping software.
Having said that, my split keyboard is one of the best investments I did in my life.
Thank you for creating the containment thread.
If you swap caps for left control, do you swap return for right control? I've been taught not to type modifier + key with one hand.
Dvorak + Emacs user here, by the way. In my opinion mouse use is okay, but I think a drawing tablet is better than a mouse.
Do you even use two hands for shortcuts like copy and paste?
I use ctrl-c and ctrl-v for those. Right hand presses right control with palm of hand (just below pinky). Left hand types the letter like normal.
I just kind of roll my hand to the ctrl key, I don't use a finger to press it.
Same thing with right-ctrl.
I could never see the need to rebind Ctrl to Caps Lock (and I do use Emacs). Whenever it's time to press Ctrl, I curl my pinky and press that key with my pinky's distal joint. I did, however, swap Fn and the Global key on my Mac.
I think that's reason enough to rebind Ctrl to Caps Lock. I used to do the same, but why go to the trouble when I can remap Caps Lock once and be done with it?
My all time favorite was the Wang 724 keyboard.
http://blog.komar.be/wang-724-teardown/
Since then, it does not really matter which keyboard I use. Now I have a reddragon keyboard (Redragon K552 Mechanical Gaming Keyboard, 87-Key Compact). I picked that up a while ago because it does not use much space on the table/desk I have.