I’m primarily a coding instructor but I also teach lessons based around Kerbal Space Program. From that angle I’m pretty happy where these devs are going with the sandbox and level of freedom they plan on giving users. One reason my students seem to really like KSP are all the different things you can do/build (especially space planes). While it does have a high difficulty curve when it comes to the controls, once they master them they all seem to appreciate the level of control they have. From my perspective, I feel that instead of trying to make certain systems more accessible/simple they should go in the opposite direction and offer more control/options (preferably with a decent tutorial though).
However, something I really hope the developers plan on making a macOS port. I use a MacBook myself, but I’ve noticed the vast majority of my students also have Macs. I have no hard data to back this up, but I suspect a larger than average segment of users interested in this game are on Mac.
I relied on Mechjeb too much in my game, so I did a run using KRPC and built my own autopilot features with it. It was a lot of fun, and I would recommend it.
I thought it would be nice to have actual mission planning in game for things like complex maneuvers, orbital slingshots, Lagrange point orbits, and the like.
Then launch countdowns, maps, exact timed burns that you'd still have to do manually but you could seemingly do so much more.
Or maybe this kind of thing already exists with mods.
Mechjeb does a lot of automation for complex maneuvers like planetary transfers, ascent autopilot, target interception, etc..
You can even do a porkchop plot for interplanetary transfer.
but lagrange points are not possible in KSP because of the Sphere of Influence Model.
and orbital slingshots are not included, I assume because they require an intense bruteforce calculation.
Aha ok! Ambition reignited, it's not that it's trivial but it's very possible to simulate these things and there are plenty of valid shortcuts. The "BMW" astrodynamics books I learned a large chunk of it from was published in 1971. "Sphere of influence" is a lot more "things you have to do with pen and paper" than things you're forced to do with modern computers.
somewhere they have an FAQ where one of the questions is about Mac support, i remember the response being something like "most of the developers use Macs so it might happen"
So excited to play this but also sad that they didn't get the IP to use Kerbals. Not loving the cutesy baby kittens.. should have gone with a more serious animal like capybaras.
I think the angle is at least partially that "Kitten"/"Kerbal" both start with a 'K' and are 2 syllables making the game names sound very similar (in both full form and abbreviation).
Of course, I'm sure there will be Kerbal mods if the game proves anywhere near as popular!
The main reason for them being kittens is to incentivize valuing the astronauts lives without forcing a gameplay related penalty for killing or losing them. The disposability of astronauts is something the devs of this game think was a mistake in KSP. But at the same it's not a game about forcing the player to behave a certain way, so making them kittens is the middle ground.
What disposability? Kerbals were never disposable! If you crash your little green astronauts on some moon or planet, you're supposed to send a rescue mission after them. And should that rescue fail too, stranding more Kerbals, you just keep launching more rescue missions, until you successfully establish a colony :).
The next spiritual successor should allow us to customise the species, and let us deal with whatever consequences that might bring!
Like, you might have a aquatic space-faring species, which requires you to bring lots of water into space. More rockets (and struts!) will be needed, but at least you get really good radiation protection out of it!
Tardigrades ought to be a cheat code, you can just glue your crew to the outside of the booster and they'll probably be alright so long as you don't glue them to the fiery end!
Not sure if that's more or less bad than the dozens of kerbals polluting my LKO for, uh... reasons.
Since I play with no mods I guess they're all still technically alive since they don't require food or water and have an apparently infinite supply of oxygen.
Yeah I don't think i can stomach cute kittens in my rockets that go boom on launch at least 80% of times. At least Kerbals were strange enough i didnt care
Let me know when I can run it on my Mac. I realize I'm 1% of the world but I can't even be bothered to unfuck the gaming machines I own that are gathering dust. Just let me use my main workstation and I'll play the shit out of it
I wish it were open-source, especially since it's being distributed "pay-what-you-want" anyway. If they released the source, they could get free labor to port to Mac or even console homebrew.
The game is not expected to be made open source due to certain dependencies that are not also open source. Public code contributions may be opened up in the future pending concerns around effectively managing the potential volume of code contributions.
> The game is not expected to be made open source due to certain dependencies that are not also open source.
That's always kind of struck me as a silly excuse. So just release it without those non-open source dependencies. If there is a community need, they will be re-implemented. There's no law that says an open source release needs to be buildable from day one.
The only time it's not silly is when said dependencies are not just non-free, but covered under an NDA. If the API is under NDA then they can't release the code that uses the APIs. AIUI this is why FOSS games don't get ported to console, even though there might be people willing to fork up the money to pay for devkits and SDKs.
My guess is that it's the dependencies for the game engine. They use a custom engine but with how fast they got it up and running I'm guessing it's based on a pre-existing game engine which would almost certainly get it put under NDA.
What secret sauce APIs are there to protect on the consoles? I guess the DRM side they might want to keep as secret as possible, but everything else strikes me as boring standard stuff. Here is how you draw a triangle, register an achievement, pop up the console store, whatever.
Well, all it takes is for e.g. Nintendo to see that you're violating NDA and poof your game is gone from the eShop. So while in practice you can get the API docs, woe to the company that leaked them.
So if e.g. Wesnoth got ported to eShop they'd legally have to publish the source but Nintendo would instantly delist and sue for NDA violation.
Again, I hate the companies that do this. Nobody should buy from them. But that's what they do.
I wonder what they'll do in that regard, has anyone seen an official comment on the intent? I know they already have a Linux build but they didn't have to create a new graphics API target (they use Vulkan) to do that.
Worms space program, and add a mode where after you land you discover an opposing team is already there and you have to battle them using rocket launchers and bombs across a rocky landscape.
Thinking about what would be going through Bill Kerman's little head as he approaches the rocket having just seen poor Jebediah Kerman vaporised on the launch pad was pretty funny. I don't think this same gallows humour extends to kittens.
I just started doing a final playthrough of KSP in anticipation by the time KSA is in a more complete state I'll have the itch for such a game again. It's looking to be in a much better direction than KSP 2 (very glad I managed to avoid that) both technically & in release approach.
Kitten Space Agency is being made by one of the studios that attempted to land the contract to make KSP2. Basically, KSP1 had fundamental engine limitations that were blocking adding stuff that the developers really wanted (interstellar travel, better colonies, etc). So instead of just developing more DLC, they decided to make KSP2. Since the company that made KSP1 wasn't a game developer (they were a marketing company that gave their devs some free time), they shopped around for a studio to take it over. Of the studios that offered to take on the project, they ended up choosing Take2, because they had a flashy, art-focused pitch. Take 2 muddled around in development hell, then decided to abandon the engine rewrite, and focus almost exclusively on releasing a graphics overhaul of KSP1, all while still promising the features that required the engine rewrite in the first place. Queue absolutely disastrous early access launch. Rocketwerks, the KSA studio, were another one of the studios that pitched for KSP2, on the technical basis of their proposed replacement engine which would actually solve the problems that was KSP2 raison d'être. After Take2's KSP2 failed miserably, fired all it's staff, and then pretended that KSP2 wasn't dead for months, Rocketwerks announced that they were going to build their own game, KSA, on the engine that they had developed for KSP2.
In short, KSA is more of a KSP2 than what Take2 gave us.
KSP2 modding is a dead end. Also, it forces people to buy an abandonware KSP2 to play the mod. I spent myself those 50Euro on KSP2 when it was still active on development, but now I hope no one else makes the same mistake.
I've had success with other games (haven't tried KSA yet) adding them as a non-Steam game and using Proton like that. But yeah not being on Steam and me having to eg check for updates on my own, remember another login to download on a new computer, etc means that I'm going to stick with KSP 1 for a while at least
2s of visiting the site, before I've even had a chance to read the article:
- consent for trying to enable notifications
- modal for trying to get me to subscribe to emails
Then skim, try to leave
- Hijacks back button for a "before you leave" thing
I’m primarily a coding instructor but I also teach lessons based around Kerbal Space Program. From that angle I’m pretty happy where these devs are going with the sandbox and level of freedom they plan on giving users. One reason my students seem to really like KSP are all the different things you can do/build (especially space planes). While it does have a high difficulty curve when it comes to the controls, once they master them they all seem to appreciate the level of control they have. From my perspective, I feel that instead of trying to make certain systems more accessible/simple they should go in the opposite direction and offer more control/options (preferably with a decent tutorial though).
However, something I really hope the developers plan on making a macOS port. I use a MacBook myself, but I’ve noticed the vast majority of my students also have Macs. I have no hard data to back this up, but I suspect a larger than average segment of users interested in this game are on Mac.
Have you ever combined KSP with the coding instruction using either kOS[1] or kRPC[2]?
1. https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS_DOC/ 2. https://krpc.github.io/krpc/
I relied on Mechjeb too much in my game, so I did a run using KRPC and built my own autopilot features with it. It was a lot of fun, and I would recommend it.
I thought it would be nice to have actual mission planning in game for things like complex maneuvers, orbital slingshots, Lagrange point orbits, and the like.
Then launch countdowns, maps, exact timed burns that you'd still have to do manually but you could seemingly do so much more.
Or maybe this kind of thing already exists with mods.
Mechjeb does a lot of automation for complex maneuvers like planetary transfers, ascent autopilot, target interception, etc.. You can even do a porkchop plot for interplanetary transfer. but lagrange points are not possible in KSP because of the Sphere of Influence Model. and orbital slingshots are not included, I assume because they require an intense bruteforce calculation.
Aha ok! Ambition reignited, it's not that it's trivial but it's very possible to simulate these things and there are plenty of valid shortcuts. The "BMW" astrodynamics books I learned a large chunk of it from was published in 1971. "Sphere of influence" is a lot more "things you have to do with pen and paper" than things you're forced to do with modern computers.
There’s a KSP mod called Principia which does some kind of n-body simulation in which Lagrange points do exist iirc.
somewhere they have an FAQ where one of the questions is about Mac support, i remember the response being something like "most of the developers use Macs so it might happen"
edit: here - https://kittenspaceagency.wiki.gg/wiki/Frequently_asked_ques...?
> Officially supported native builds for both [macOS and Linux] would require significant financial contributions to be considered economical.
Running it through Wine is probably the safest bet. Should be no problem for platforms with D3D11 emulation figured out (eg. basically everwhere).
I'm running KSP on Proton, and it works just fine. If I were developing the game native builds on Linux would be pretty far down the priority list.
[dead]
So excited to play this but also sad that they didn't get the IP to use Kerbals. Not loving the cutesy baby kittens.. should have gone with a more serious animal like capybaras.
'Kapybara Space Program' has actually already been done as an April Fool's post by the previous studio that worked on Kerbal Space Program 2:
https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/216143-kapybara-s...
I think the angle is at least partially that "Kitten"/"Kerbal" both start with a 'K' and are 2 syllables making the game names sound very similar (in both full form and abbreviation).
Of course, I'm sure there will be Kerbal mods if the game proves anywhere near as popular!
The main reason for them being kittens is to incentivize valuing the astronauts lives without forcing a gameplay related penalty for killing or losing them. The disposability of astronauts is something the devs of this game think was a mistake in KSP. But at the same it's not a game about forcing the player to behave a certain way, so making them kittens is the middle ground.
What disposability? Kerbals were never disposable! If you crash your little green astronauts on some moon or planet, you're supposed to send a rescue mission after them. And should that rescue fail too, stranding more Kerbals, you just keep launching more rescue missions, until you successfully establish a colony :).
Rescue missions were one of the funniest and challenging parts of KSP, and a cannonical meme of the community.
"Kapybara"
Giant tardigrades would have been fun. Serious, authentic space travelers... not so much on the cuteness factor, though.
The next spiritual successor should allow us to customise the species, and let us deal with whatever consequences that might bring!
Like, you might have a aquatic space-faring species, which requires you to bring lots of water into space. More rockets (and struts!) will be needed, but at least you get really good radiation protection out of it!
Tardigrades ought to be a cheat code, you can just glue your crew to the outside of the booster and they'll probably be alright so long as you don't glue them to the fiery end!
I don't know why but I found myself thinking "Capybaras would make much more sense." And I meant it.
Something about their resolute "ok I'll deal with this" facial expressions while being absolute units body-wise seem right for comical astronauts.
I bet there will be mods in no time to bring the Kerbals back :)
There was a mod within 24 hours of the tech demo being released :)
Perhaps it will be moddable to have whatever animal a modder might choose to put in there.
I'd like to play Minion Space Program.
Aren't the kerbals basically minions with dignity?
Not mine. My kerbin's ocean is full of them now.
Not sure if that's more or less bad than the dozens of kerbals polluting my LKO for, uh... reasons.
Since I play with no mods I guess they're all still technically alive since they don't require food or water and have an apparently infinite supply of oxygen.
I would play this if it allowed one to steal the moon.
Isn’t that NASA?
KSP 2 killed the franchise so decisively the KSA devs might be able to license Kerbals for not too much.
Day -1 mod will bring space frogs back.
Yeah I don't think i can stomach cute kittens in my rockets that go boom on launch at least 80% of times. At least Kerbals were strange enough i didnt care
Let me know when I can run it on my Mac. I realize I'm 1% of the world but I can't even be bothered to unfuck the gaming machines I own that are gathering dust. Just let me use my main workstation and I'll play the shit out of it
I wish it were open-source, especially since it's being distributed "pay-what-you-want" anyway. If they released the source, they could get free labor to port to Mac or even console homebrew.
They answered this on their wiki:
> Will KSA be open source?
The game is not expected to be made open source due to certain dependencies that are not also open source. Public code contributions may be opened up in the future pending concerns around effectively managing the potential volume of code contributions.
> The game is not expected to be made open source due to certain dependencies that are not also open source.
That's always kind of struck me as a silly excuse. So just release it without those non-open source dependencies. If there is a community need, they will be re-implemented. There's no law that says an open source release needs to be buildable from day one.
The only time it's not silly is when said dependencies are not just non-free, but covered under an NDA. If the API is under NDA then they can't release the code that uses the APIs. AIUI this is why FOSS games don't get ported to console, even though there might be people willing to fork up the money to pay for devkits and SDKs.
My guess is that it's the dependencies for the game engine. They use a custom engine but with how fast they got it up and running I'm guessing it's based on a pre-existing game engine which would almost certainly get it put under NDA.
What secret sauce APIs are there to protect on the consoles? I guess the DRM side they might want to keep as secret as possible, but everything else strikes me as boring standard stuff. Here is how you draw a triangle, register an achievement, pop up the console store, whatever.
Who knows what some enterprising hacker might be able to glean about the workings of the console by looking at the APIs.
I think that consoles shouldn't be locked down, but it's sensible granted the premise.
All of them you can already find on the internet with only a bit of searching btw. With the docs and headers and everything.
The only people who this stops are the people who want to do things "by the book". :P
Well, all it takes is for e.g. Nintendo to see that you're violating NDA and poof your game is gone from the eShop. So while in practice you can get the API docs, woe to the company that leaked them.
So if e.g. Wesnoth got ported to eShop they'd legally have to publish the source but Nintendo would instantly delist and sue for NDA violation.
Again, I hate the companies that do this. Nobody should buy from them. But that's what they do.
You are not, in fact, 1% here. I saw numbers like 77% of players using Windows, 12% on macOS and 9% on Linux for the game.
Also, developers seem to have an experimental Linux build and code building for macOS according to the wiki:
https://kittenspaceagency.wiki.gg/wiki/Frequently_asked_ques...?
I have a lot of opinions on shipping games on macOS, but they mostly about lack of technical barriers to be honest, so I'll leave them with myself.
My son and I both lost interest in KSP 2 even before its demise for exactly this reason.
I wonder what they'll do in that regard, has anyone seen an official comment on the intent? I know they already have a Linux build but they didn't have to create a new graphics API target (they use Vulkan) to do that.
You can target Macs with Vulcan. It's not ideal but it should be fine.
Wasn't a big part of the attraction of KSP to see your creations fall apart, without too much guilt about it?
Neotenous fluffy mammals for collateral damage seems like an unfortunate handicap to take on. Maybe they should make it worms or something?
Worms space program, and add a mode where after you land you discover an opposing team is already there and you have to battle them using rocket launchers and bombs across a rocky landscape.
Using kittens is a master stroke. If done right, the internet will reward them.
I was surprised how much backlash there is over using kittens.
It turned out that people are worried they’ll get too attached to the kittens to be able to enjoy them becoming engulfed in massive explosions.
Thinking about what would be going through Bill Kerman's little head as he approaches the rocket having just seen poor Jebediah Kerman vaporised on the launch pad was pretty funny. I don't think this same gallows humour extends to kittens.
Now that's funny.
"They're too easy to get sentimentally attached to, and then it makes me sad if I blow them up!"
Honestly this probably enhances the sandbox nature of the game by making the stakes more palpable.
There is historical precedent tho: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9licette
Kittens have 9 lives, just take them out of rotation before they run out. Could have a counter on their space suit.
I just started doing a final playthrough of KSP in anticipation by the time KSA is in a more complete state I'll have the itch for such a game again. It's looking to be in a much better direction than KSP 2 (very glad I managed to avoid that) both technically & in release approach.
An actual spiritual successor to KSP is KSP2 Redux, a community project to resurrect KSP2. They made tons of progress already: https://ksp2redux.org/
Kitten Space Agency is being made by one of the studios that attempted to land the contract to make KSP2. Basically, KSP1 had fundamental engine limitations that were blocking adding stuff that the developers really wanted (interstellar travel, better colonies, etc). So instead of just developing more DLC, they decided to make KSP2. Since the company that made KSP1 wasn't a game developer (they were a marketing company that gave their devs some free time), they shopped around for a studio to take it over. Of the studios that offered to take on the project, they ended up choosing Take2, because they had a flashy, art-focused pitch. Take 2 muddled around in development hell, then decided to abandon the engine rewrite, and focus almost exclusively on releasing a graphics overhaul of KSP1, all while still promising the features that required the engine rewrite in the first place. Queue absolutely disastrous early access launch. Rocketwerks, the KSA studio, were another one of the studios that pitched for KSP2, on the technical basis of their proposed replacement engine which would actually solve the problems that was KSP2 raison d'être. After Take2's KSP2 failed miserably, fired all it's staff, and then pretended that KSP2 wasn't dead for months, Rocketwerks announced that they were going to build their own game, KSA, on the engine that they had developed for KSP2.
In short, KSA is more of a KSP2 than what Take2 gave us.
KSP2 modding is a dead end. Also, it forces people to buy an abandonware KSP2 to play the mod. I spent myself those 50Euro on KSP2 when it was still active on development, but now I hope no one else makes the same mistake.
The fact that they're still selling KSP 2 as an early access game without clearly stating there won't be any further development is, well, fraud.
What's the best way to play on Linux? I'm sure proton would work but it's not on steam...
I've had success with other games (haven't tried KSA yet) adding them as a non-Steam game and using Proton like that. But yeah not being on Steam and me having to eg check for updates on my own, remember another login to download on a new computer, etc means that I'm going to stick with KSP 1 for a while at least
A nice segue for kids from the Catstronauts series…
space.com huh...
2s of visiting the site, before I've even had a chance to read the article: - consent for trying to enable notifications - modal for trying to get me to subscribe to emails Then skim, try to leave - Hijacks back button for a "before you leave" thing
Absolute trash.
[dead]
[dead]