The way he describes using his computer (dedicated PC, laptop in drawer, phone left on charge) is exactly how I use my tech and always have (as phones and laptops became more portable/available).
I'm in the weird position of been a programmer who likes computers and dislikes basically all other consumer technology (phones, laptops, consoles, most domestic smart devices etc).
I don't like interruptions, technology serves the user not the other way around and should always be pull not push (in my personal opinion).
I think everything peaked in 2014, phones were firmly "second" devices and there was a lower expectation that people were glued to them constantly.
Laptops had crappy batteries and performed significantly worse for more money, so were only used by the dedicated. (or, the rich in the case of some software devs in SV/London).
Most people still had desktops and using computers was its own "thing", then you went away and lived your life.
Now we're terminally online, internet culture is the pervading culture of the west... I've never liked computers less than now... but I still love computers :(
I have the feeling many more people feel similar. I loved the intentionality of sitting behind your computer with purpose back then. There was always something you’d want to do and when that was done you’d search for the next thing to do.
I didn't carry a cell phone for long enough (I do now) that people looked at me like I was nuts. I viewed a cell phone the same way most people thought of a pager (remember those things?) - for other people's convenience, not mine. If I am talking to someone in the hall, they will answer their phone, like people that call are more important? Thankfully I think people have realized that - some of the time.
My working computer still is a stationary desktop computer. I still need to go somewhere to use a real computer. Love that. I do not like smartphones. Surveillance devices.
Some time ago I realized it was actually helpful to set up multiple workstations so the place I go to write code isn't the same as the place I go to browse hn and watch youtube.
Yes, as an computer addictive (like me), this is also a great strategy. In my basement I set up a computer just for music production, nothing else. Right besides the modern production computer is my Atari ST I do sequencing with. This thing even doesn't have a network connection (although it would be possible).
FWIW I was there few years ago then, as mentioned in a recent comment, moved away from iPhone to deGoogle Android (relying on /e/OS) then GrapeheneOS using nearly exclusively open-source software on it with nearly no dark patterns. It's far from perfect I feel a lot saner now. I don't necessarily advocate for smartphones but I still want to point out some smartphone tailored to your own usage can be less intrusive and surveil radically less, if at all.
Part of this is modern house construction too (at least where I live in Europe); the living room / kitchen is just one big room, and upstairs there's two bedrooms (one of which can be split up).
I simply don't have the space to dedicate a room for one specific function. I'd love to be able to e.g. have a guest/living room with no tech, an office room for working, etc on top of separate bedrooms for everyone, but that's only possible now in older houses starting at €600,000 in the more remote parts of the country.
> When I walk into my office and sit at my desk, I’m choosing to be there. When I walk away, I have a door I can close, and a life outside the room that the digital world is no longer allowed to reach.
Being intentional is hard, and a little friction helping it is welcome. But I do hope for myself that I can be intentional in everything that I do (this includes having fun, being with family, and even doomscrolling).
The sad thing about phones being he primary (and in many case the only) computing devices for most people is that they lose the possibility of separating the tasks that the do on the phone vs the tasks that they do on a computer.
That’s the entire point of why people use a smartphone as their primary device: they don’t want the hassle of having to use a computer. And for normal people (ie not the readership of HN), using a computer is a chore.
I agree that it can be a chore, but more like, I'll use a real computer for serious tasks like doing my taxes, administration, planning vacations, etc.
This is still the case for non-techie Millennials and older. But for the younger generations who might have grown up with a smartphone as their only personal device, the distinction of task importance determining the platform has disappeared.
Is it just the younger generation? I’ve seen all generations favour their phone over a laptop for anything that needs to be done online. Which is basically everything.
Smartphones are computers. There's no difference between what you can do in a "real" computer and what you can do on a smartphone. I wrote an entire programming language inside my Android phone with Termux. Perhaps the first language to be born inside a mobile phone.
Any limitations on smartphones are either ergonomic or entirely artificial.
Technically true but practically you know what people mean when they say that, right? Do you think there’s a 3D artist out there that models and renders something in blender on a smartphone?
My point wasn't really about the capability of a phone compared to a computer.
I have thoughts on that but it's not the point I was making.
Assigning tasks to devices can be done due to the capabilities of each device but also due to other factors, like what behaviour you want to influence.
For example, if you want to spend less time doom-scrolling/on social media/whatever, moving these tasks outside of the computer you have in your pocket and into the computer you need to sit in front of helps.
> There's no difference between what you can do in a "real" computer and what you can do on a smartphone.
In fact, it kind of runs the other way: even my "portable" "real" computer is terrible as, say, a camera, or level. It's a bad GPS navigation device, both due to the form factor and it's entirely lacking the hardware for it (technically they can have this, but very few do).
There are lots of things my phone can do that even my laptop, let alone my desktop, practically can't.
Funnily I had a discussion with someone I barely met yesterday. They commented on my reMarkable Pro, wondering if I liked it.
We discussed a bit and while doing so I pullet out both my paper notepad, my phone but also my XR headset (which just happened to be in my backpack). I also use a bottlecap to sketch in the sand.
My point : anything, literally anything, goes. You can have the best of tools yet think poorly about the most pointless problem. You can have nothing at all, no tool, being in the middle of a very noisy place... and still tackle this brilliantly. If you are flexible and if you tailor YOUR tools to YOUR usage, anywhere and anything should be "good enough".
TL;DR: thinking happens in the mind and only optionally extending it via tools.
In retrospect MY first computer, not my parents or school computer, was not a desktop but rather a pocket calculator that I needed for mathematics.
When I noticed I could program on it it definitely expanded my horizon. I was not bound to a desk though and I programmed anywhere. It was a very excited feeling, still is. It does NOT mean being available 24/7 for others though.
FWIW I do also have a computer room with a tower desktop. It's very convenient. I'm not convinced I do my best thinking there. It's mostly convenient to execute, to drill. The actual thinking though happens anywhere, I don't really get to decide where and when.
> Laptops became more convenient for more types of task, and soon they were good enough to be your primary computing device.
> My primary computer is now a desktop with a large monitor, ...
I own several laptops: they're simply inferior computing devices due to their mediocre screen and pathetic keyboards. I'm laying on the couch while typing this on a laptop. That's what it's good for.
My actual workstation has a 38" ultra-wide. Wife's got, in our office room, next to my ultra-wide 38" monitor, a desktop setup with three monitors. She likes screen real-estate too. We've got a T-shaped shared desk, with the multifunction printer/scanner in the middle, "separating" us.
But that's not all: I've got a 38" ultra-wide that does 3840x1600 and there are 12 virtual desktops on it, all carefully arranged.
Friends of mine had a company doing 3D and post-prod for ads and short movies: I don't even remember ever seeing one laptop at their company.
To me a laptop is a stamp-sized version of a desktop: it's asking Da Vinci to paint the Mona Lisa on a stamp.
Do I, at times, do actual work on my 17" LG Gram laptop (a very sweet and very light laptop)? Yes. But I hate every second of it.
It's really not to "compartiment" your life and not always be connected that you should prefer your own chair, your own desk, your gigantic screen real-estate and your fat desktop to a laptop: it's because it's a superior way of working.
Invest in a good chair. Invest in a good keyboard. Invest in big monitor(s). You'll thank me later.
P.S: you're excused if you hook a powerful laptop to a proper keyboard, a proper mouse and fat monitor(s). But then that's basically a desktop.
P.P.S: as a bonus your desktop can use a good old wired Internet connection.
> I own several laptops: they're simply inferior computing devices due to their mediocre screen and pathetic keyboards
This is the kind of problem that can be remedied using a cable and a suitable docking station, anytime you are near the desk.
I think, weirdly, the problem with modern laptops is the opposite - the screens and keyboards (particularly on flagship models) are good enough that 90% of the time you don't need the 38" monitor or the mechanical keyboard. Which leads to them invading spaces far from your desk, like your couch, or your bed...
The way he describes using his computer (dedicated PC, laptop in drawer, phone left on charge) is exactly how I use my tech and always have (as phones and laptops became more portable/available).
I'm in the weird position of been a programmer who likes computers and dislikes basically all other consumer technology (phones, laptops, consoles, most domestic smart devices etc).
I don't like interruptions, technology serves the user not the other way around and should always be pull not push (in my personal opinion).
You're not alone.
I think everything peaked in 2014, phones were firmly "second" devices and there was a lower expectation that people were glued to them constantly.
Laptops had crappy batteries and performed significantly worse for more money, so were only used by the dedicated. (or, the rich in the case of some software devs in SV/London).
Most people still had desktops and using computers was its own "thing", then you went away and lived your life.
Now we're terminally online, internet culture is the pervading culture of the west... I've never liked computers less than now... but I still love computers :(
I have the feeling many more people feel similar. I loved the intentionality of sitting behind your computer with purpose back then. There was always something you’d want to do and when that was done you’d search for the next thing to do.
I didn't carry a cell phone for long enough (I do now) that people looked at me like I was nuts. I viewed a cell phone the same way most people thought of a pager (remember those things?) - for other people's convenience, not mine. If I am talking to someone in the hall, they will answer their phone, like people that call are more important? Thankfully I think people have realized that - some of the time.
I was hoping to see photos here but I didn't see any photo. That's kind of a shame because the write-up was pretty good.
My working computer still is a stationary desktop computer. I still need to go somewhere to use a real computer. Love that. I do not like smartphones. Surveillance devices.
Some time ago I realized it was actually helpful to set up multiple workstations so the place I go to write code isn't the same as the place I go to browse hn and watch youtube.
Yes, as an computer addictive (like me), this is also a great strategy. In my basement I set up a computer just for music production, nothing else. Right besides the modern production computer is my Atari ST I do sequencing with. This thing even doesn't have a network connection (although it would be possible).
FWIW I was there few years ago then, as mentioned in a recent comment, moved away from iPhone to deGoogle Android (relying on /e/OS) then GrapeheneOS using nearly exclusively open-source software on it with nearly no dark patterns. It's far from perfect I feel a lot saner now. I don't necessarily advocate for smartphones but I still want to point out some smartphone tailored to your own usage can be less intrusive and surveil radically less, if at all.
Part of this is modern house construction too (at least where I live in Europe); the living room / kitchen is just one big room, and upstairs there's two bedrooms (one of which can be split up).
I simply don't have the space to dedicate a room for one specific function. I'd love to be able to e.g. have a guest/living room with no tech, an office room for working, etc on top of separate bedrooms for everyone, but that's only possible now in older houses starting at €600,000 in the more remote parts of the country.
> When I walk into my office and sit at my desk, I’m choosing to be there. When I walk away, I have a door I can close, and a life outside the room that the digital world is no longer allowed to reach.
Being intentional is hard, and a little friction helping it is welcome. But I do hope for myself that I can be intentional in everything that I do (this includes having fun, being with family, and even doomscrolling).
The sad thing about phones being he primary (and in many case the only) computing devices for most people is that they lose the possibility of separating the tasks that the do on the phone vs the tasks that they do on a computer.
That’s the entire point of why people use a smartphone as their primary device: they don’t want the hassle of having to use a computer. And for normal people (ie not the readership of HN), using a computer is a chore.
I agree that it can be a chore, but more like, I'll use a real computer for serious tasks like doing my taxes, administration, planning vacations, etc.
This is still the case for non-techie Millennials and older. But for the younger generations who might have grown up with a smartphone as their only personal device, the distinction of task importance determining the platform has disappeared.
Is it just the younger generation? I’ve seen all generations favour their phone over a laptop for anything that needs to be done online. Which is basically everything.
Of course they do, it is one device that is convenient to use and does everything they need it to.
Most people really do not need the dedicated device, whether it's a laptop or desktop, to use the Internet they way they want to.
You’re just reiterating what I said
But if you aren’t technical and everything is done online, then it’s easier for non-techies to do it on their phone.
Smartphones are computers. There's no difference between what you can do in a "real" computer and what you can do on a smartphone. I wrote an entire programming language inside my Android phone with Termux. Perhaps the first language to be born inside a mobile phone.
Any limitations on smartphones are either ergonomic or entirely artificial.
Technically true but practically you know what people mean when they say that, right? Do you think there’s a 3D artist out there that models and renders something in blender on a smartphone?
My point wasn't really about the capability of a phone compared to a computer. I have thoughts on that but it's not the point I was making.
Assigning tasks to devices can be done due to the capabilities of each device but also due to other factors, like what behaviour you want to influence. For example, if you want to spend less time doom-scrolling/on social media/whatever, moving these tasks outside of the computer you have in your pocket and into the computer you need to sit in front of helps.
> There's no difference between what you can do in a "real" computer and what you can do on a smartphone.
In fact, it kind of runs the other way: even my "portable" "real" computer is terrible as, say, a camera, or level. It's a bad GPS navigation device, both due to the form factor and it's entirely lacking the hardware for it (technically they can have this, but very few do).
There are lots of things my phone can do that even my laptop, let alone my desktop, practically can't.
Funnily I had a discussion with someone I barely met yesterday. They commented on my reMarkable Pro, wondering if I liked it.
We discussed a bit and while doing so I pullet out both my paper notepad, my phone but also my XR headset (which just happened to be in my backpack). I also use a bottlecap to sketch in the sand.
My point : anything, literally anything, goes. You can have the best of tools yet think poorly about the most pointless problem. You can have nothing at all, no tool, being in the middle of a very noisy place... and still tackle this brilliantly. If you are flexible and if you tailor YOUR tools to YOUR usage, anywhere and anything should be "good enough".
TL;DR: thinking happens in the mind and only optionally extending it via tools.
In retrospect MY first computer, not my parents or school computer, was not a desktop but rather a pocket calculator that I needed for mathematics.
When I noticed I could program on it it definitely expanded my horizon. I was not bound to a desk though and I programmed anywhere. It was a very excited feeling, still is. It does NOT mean being available 24/7 for others though.
FWIW I do also have a computer room with a tower desktop. It's very convenient. I'm not convinced I do my best thinking there. It's mostly convenient to execute, to drill. The actual thinking though happens anywhere, I don't really get to decide where and when.
gee this chap is young if imac g3 was his first computer. or i'm old.
It’s the latter, I’m afraid. I thought the same thing!
> Laptops became more convenient for more types of task, and soon they were good enough to be your primary computing device.
> My primary computer is now a desktop with a large monitor, ...
I own several laptops: they're simply inferior computing devices due to their mediocre screen and pathetic keyboards. I'm laying on the couch while typing this on a laptop. That's what it's good for.
My actual workstation has a 38" ultra-wide. Wife's got, in our office room, next to my ultra-wide 38" monitor, a desktop setup with three monitors. She likes screen real-estate too. We've got a T-shaped shared desk, with the multifunction printer/scanner in the middle, "separating" us.
But that's not all: I've got a 38" ultra-wide that does 3840x1600 and there are 12 virtual desktops on it, all carefully arranged.
Friends of mine had a company doing 3D and post-prod for ads and short movies: I don't even remember ever seeing one laptop at their company.
To me a laptop is a stamp-sized version of a desktop: it's asking Da Vinci to paint the Mona Lisa on a stamp.
Do I, at times, do actual work on my 17" LG Gram laptop (a very sweet and very light laptop)? Yes. But I hate every second of it.
It's really not to "compartiment" your life and not always be connected that you should prefer your own chair, your own desk, your gigantic screen real-estate and your fat desktop to a laptop: it's because it's a superior way of working.
Invest in a good chair. Invest in a good keyboard. Invest in big monitor(s). You'll thank me later.
P.S: you're excused if you hook a powerful laptop to a proper keyboard, a proper mouse and fat monitor(s). But then that's basically a desktop.
P.P.S: as a bonus your desktop can use a good old wired Internet connection.
> I own several laptops: they're simply inferior computing devices due to their mediocre screen and pathetic keyboards
This is the kind of problem that can be remedied using a cable and a suitable docking station, anytime you are near the desk.
I think, weirdly, the problem with modern laptops is the opposite - the screens and keyboards (particularly on flagship models) are good enough that 90% of the time you don't need the 38" monitor or the mechanical keyboard. Which leads to them invading spaces far from your desk, like your couch, or your bed...