>The union said employers should take steps to cool down workplaces once temperatures exceed 24C, with workers able to stop working if temperatures reach 30C, or 27C for those doing manual labour or working outdoors.
Geneva already has a version of this. You have to stop outside work at 13h00 unless it's necessary, in which case you have to take 45min breaks for every 15 minutes of work. However the threshold isn't 27C but rather like 32C (from what I understand)
is it really an alternative? i'd rather do a 4 hour night shift without breaks than working 8 hours like this in the heat. what am i supposed to do with a 45 minute break? if i am a bricklayer or example, i'd still be stuck on a badly cooled construction site. seems totally not worth it to me. even worse considering that normally breaks are not paid.
if we assume that this is the middle of the day, so i work 2 hours normally, then 4 hours with 45 minute breaks and then another 2 hours normally, i might as well just work 2.5hours normally, take a 3 hour break and then work another 2.5 hours normally.
so no, really, i don't see any benefit in that arrangement.
breaks are not work time. you are entitled to breaks, but unless they are quick bathroom breaks they don't count as work, and in places where you have to stamp in to start work you actually have to stamp out for each break. at least that's the law in germany. since germany is one of the countries with stronger employee protection globally, i can hardly imagine any country offering more than this.
OP's submission seems very UK / TUC centric, also doesn't include something many here are bringing up, that they indeed plan to base it on the wet bulb temperature.
> they indeed plan to base it on the wet bulb temperature
WBGT != wet bulb : There's some nasty confusing terms here - and the Grauniad has also got the link wrong - their reporting has not just gotten more biased it has gotten much worse.
I find dry bulb temperature along with humidity are better when I travel, because they are more predictable based on historical data and you get to know what matters and make choices according to context. And more helpful in cool climates where damp cool days are nasty.
First, weather services would need to report it. None of the ones I've seen do. Most don't even report feels-like temperature, they just report plain temperature... in my city (often windy and humid) it's all but useless, you can need a jacket with 21ºC one day and be comfortable without it with 16ºC the next.
That's an interesting way to investigate how much public policy surrounding schools is actually focused on student education. I think you'd find that there would be significant fear around crime in an environment that already has a heightened risk of riots. For younger students the debate would shift to burden of additional childcare.
Not sure about the rioting part, maybe in some places on earth, but I'd say the burden of additional childcare is obviously an issue. So is just missing those hours of education.
Which is why perhaps classes should not be suspended in most and less extreme cases, but rather adjusted. And good teachers are already doing that. (And long-term, AC has to be a thing.)
Since when one learns at school? You go there, listen some guys and then go back home and there the real learning happens: when you sit down, alone, facing a blank paper or a problem you need to solve based on the notes you took while at school.
I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high?
It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to work completely when it gets hot outside.
The south already mostly had AC. The north was too busy criticizing the south for things like closing shops in the afternoon, using blinds, eating late, and of course using AC. Now I guess they're beginning to realize that maybe it's not that the south is "lazy" but just adaptation.
Toning down the snark, to be honest, most places in countries like France and Germany didn't have AC because up to a few years ago, maybe they'd seriously need it one week per year or so... it didn't make sense for them to have it just to keep it turned off 99% of the time. I'm sure they will adapt, but it always takes some time to change the old ways.
Which bit of Europe are you talking about? Italy and Spain have AC everywhere.
Further north it hasn't been necessary until very recently, and now people are fighting in shops to buy portable units and there are going to be loads of permanent installations once things settle down later this year.
Southern Spain may, but it's virtually unheard of up here in Galicia/Asturias/Cantabria. Even many businesses in these parts don't have AC, and our Ourense region has pretty regularly had 40+ C days the last ~5 summers
In the Canary Islands, where it’s not just hot, but also humid, you’ll be pressed to find a restaurant with AC. Some businesses do, but frankly it’s quite rare, and often times I’ve entered a business and felt a slap of heat in the face. Quite different from Madrid
Even in new build homes? IIUC, many people in Europe were taking advantage of the incentives to install heat pumps as a back door mechanism to install A/C. After all a heat pump is essentially just A/C with a reverser switch.
But that only works in homes with forced air heating. Most of Europe doesn't use forced air heating. You can replace a boiler with a heat pump, but if you do you don't magically get A/C too.
In 2026 it seems silly to do new builds in a cold climate with anything but a forced air heat pump.
We have underfloor heating/cooling; the only mould we see anywhere now is a small amount on the skylight, and previously some in the bathroom that was due to a leaking roof the builders have since made good.
Condensation needs humidity, not just a lower temperature. In summer, this is rare, even though we're in Berlin which is essentially built in the middle of a huge area of low-lying marshy woodlands.
Their walls are autoclaved aerated concrete, which is pretty good at both insulating (so less cooling needed) and absorbing/diffusing humidity, so I think in their case it's fine.
The reason is simple to understand. For the majority of the time the AC would sit idle. Some years AC is not required at all because the summer is mild. It's hard to get people to spend money on things that they don't need most of the time, it's like buying insurance.
Ok but you can use AC in the winter as well, you've an use it only to dry the air in your apartment. So this is not a real argument to me once you know what it can do and how it does it, there is no reason not to have one. Outside it is 25°C but I still run my AC at 22°C and it is super efficient as this is the case where AC excels at efficiency when the diff is small. It is a heat pump, sometimes I would run it when outside is colder and inside is veru warm as it moves heat faster than opening the window and waiting.
I know not AC are/were heat pumps but I don't know of any that are not anymore
At least in the UK, there's a massive move to heat pumps. The problem is that it's only for heating, through the usual central heating systems - so it just replaces the boiler. It's almost unheard of to have one for air conditioning. Usually people with air-con get a portable one that's only for cooling.
Things are already much better than they used to be. The 2003 heatwave killed ~70k. This year's heatwave was worse, but the number of deaths probably didn't go much beyond 20k.
>I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this?
Because the Northern Europe didn't historically need it (average summer warm weather was like 75 degrees or less), so it was mostly seen as environmentally unfriendly and more of a stupid US indulgence, like being able-bodied but still going to the supermarket on a motorized wheelchair.
The South that did need it, has already had it for the most part.
I live at 51°N and apartments in my building that face the south largely have AC. I've seen a lot of AC company vans in my neighborhood lately, so I guess many people pulled that trigger this year.
Personally I went to the mountains as it's a 2h drive and naturally cool, moist air beats AC every time.
The people who refuse to install it and make up the majority of deaths are simply old - older than the average life expectancy in the US - and thus typically pinching pennies - especially that for the vast majority of their lives it wasn't necessary.
My father had AC installed a several years ago due to his health and it was probably working overtime this season.
My mother lives in a commie block that is well insulated and surrounded by green spaces, so the heatwave didn't affect her nearly as much.
My college friend discovered his heat pump is actually reversible, so now instead of heated, they have cooled floors. Unfortunately the device wasn't smart enough to on one hand use the heat to heat up tap water and the cold to cool the surroundings, but I guess you can't have everything.
It's mostly about the perception that AC is a band-aid that doesn't just stall fixing the root cause of climate change caused by excessive energy consumption, but actively makes it worse.
I think this view is changing as solar adoption takes off in southern Europe. Here in Spain we're in the position that market rates for electricity are often negative while the sun is shining (although these rates are not really passed onto consumers at present).
That makes additional cooling load almost a non-issue, and can help incentivise the transition from diesel boilers -> heat pumps, as well as driving the grid upgrades we sorely need to make use of all the solar capacity.
How is it true? Even if emissions went to 0 tomorrow we'd still have heatwaves in Europe. It'll take at least a century to do carbon sequestration back to pre industrial levels even on a very optimistic timeline. Until that's made a good amount of progress, it's common sense to have AC in the places where the most vulnerable gather. Their homes, public transport, train stations, hospices, hospitals.
It isn't necessarily true. Here (bottom of the sea) it's only hot when the there isn't any clouds, so solar energy that produces the heat is also producing the electricity to run the AC.
It's also a misdirection of guilt. It's not the accumulated CO2 from the decades of burning all kinds of shit that is driving the weather, it's your personal AC unit.
You're describing a very new and not-yet-realized state of affairs where large amounts of power comes from solar. In that world, then yeah obviously the initial concern isn't valid.
Not realized? I live in the world where I do have 1 KW/h of solar panels on my roofs and I know some people who have 4 times that. That should be able to run the split system (which I don't have, so I'm not the best informed here).
It's fair to criticize this from the social equality perspective, but there are times when the network is saturated with zero emission electricity.
But then again, should I also not use the electric oven (I don't have the actual gas oven for the same reasons I have ) after dark when it's not windy?
Indeed. It is true. However, it's not exactly helping if the other side of the pond burns gas turbines to power their AI dreams and tells us to "just get AC bro".
AC does make the problem worse, the issue is just that climate change is mostly out of Europe's control.
It's already somewhat implemented in Florida. OSHA requires employers to protect employees from extreme heat. It doesn't explicitly require air conditioning, but air conditioning is standard practice in Florida so not providing it would open up employers to an OSHA complaint.
For outdoor work, protection from extreme heat generally implies shade, hydration, frequent breaks, et cetera.
> This is about temperature in the workplace, not outside temperatures
According to the article, the 30C threshold is for "more demanding jobs in sectors like agriculture and construction", which generally take place outdoors
Plenty of construction work takes place indoors as well. That said, the linked article isn't very clear on that aspect. It also mentions a minimum temperature of 16C in the UK which outdoors would be quite a lovely day, but rather cold for an office or other indoor workspace.
Cos today in my pokey town, my house is 30°C, my local library 28°C the gym is at least 25°C and the outside 31°C at a dew point of 15°C. Its not Florida but its the UK and there’s no relief.
From the article, it's for "jobs in sectors like agriculture and construction". Would be interesting to learn about how this kind of work is managed in hotter climates.
For office work, a lot of European countries (especially the UK) haven't invested in AC as much as the rest of the world because they haven't needed to. This is especially apparent in housing, where working from home is becoming difficult in these higher temperatures.
Days could be brutally hot ( easily over 100 F ), but there was little humidity. My transportation was a motorcycle ( with additional heat radiating off the engine ), so mid often feel a little uncomfortable, but it was definitely livable.
Interestingly, homeowners often used evaporative ‘swamp coolers’ instead of AC. A big benefit of low humidity.
I heard about a man that was finishing his work working in a greenhouse. He felt ill and dizzy and tried to go home. Sadly the car was parked in the sun. He entered in the car, fainted and died by heat stroke.
It's specifically for "jobs in sectors like agriculture and construction", not sure better buildings will help the workers out on fields and construction sites much.
Although one temperature threshold probably don't make much sense, a strict 30C across the entire continent would mean massively different things in different countries, in many countries that mean basically the entire summer off, every year.
Anything above 86 F? That's the whole summer. I see this as a negotiating position. They'll probably agree on something closer to 33 C (~90F). They have to. If they do nothing people will literally die. Climate change has consequences.
> Under the proposals, employers within the European Union would be legally required to suspend work if temperatures exceeded 30C
That's... uh... the entire summer in most of southern Europe?
I agree with the general intention, but the thresholds probably need to take into account humidity as well (i.e. be based on wet bulb temperatures), and I don't really see how one can apply a one-size-fits-all policy all the way from Greece to Scandinavia...
southern europeans have had to deal with the northern cultural view that we're lazy, and modern work culture imported from those countries has virtually ended siesta. well, now it's hot over there too. we can be nice and tell them "see?" or we can be mean and have them live with the consequences of their moral positions. Right now I'm leaning a bit to the later, but it might just be the heat getting to me :P
I’d lean towards writing an economics masters thesis that demonstrate that climate change will shrink GDP -A% per +/-B degrees/humidity variation from temperate, demonstrate this effect in past versus present data for Greece, modify the basic productivity formula underlying all of economics to include “divergence from temperate conditions”, and then finally show that when run against different world regions parallels, each region with positive (hot/humid) variances from temperate is commonly associated with the “lazy” stereotypes imposed on workers in high-divergence regions by residents of low-divergence regions. But sadly I have to get a job first, so maybe in a couple years.
Vapor compression refrigeration has been mass produced for a century. Add a reversing valve and you have a heat pump. Europe better get started on installs, it’s not going to cool down.
I have a heat pump based water heater installed in the garage. One side benefit is the garage got cooled down. It used to be that the garage got very hot during hot days. Now it’s cool.
China ramps up production & shipping to Europe [1] and a quick glance at Google Trends for Germany, UK and France AC install searches are up 5x from last year, and last year was already double or more of the previous years.
I have a warmtepomp -- it's great, but it is cooling the house, not the air a only gets it to 5 day degrees down. It's mandatory for new houses in Amsterdam I think and there seem to plans to retrofit old buildings. It helps that we also produce it, but the usual types tried to sabotage that too last time.
Except for a large part of Europe, the relative humidity is quite high. So, they're suffering more than most. I say this as someone who once lived in a desert and is well accustomed to 40-50 C summers.
Living in the south of France outside tourist havens (I had one when renting near St-Tropez), the current situation is that serious AC is considered something for the rich.
Not because AC itself is particularly expensive, but because almost no rental apartment has it because installing AC during the construction is basically forbidden due to green laws (RT 2012) so you need to own.
And owning something decent not in the damn city itself is expensive as fuck these days.
RT2012 is the reason my uncle installed a reversible heatpump to replace the cheap electric radiator in the house he renovated, so i'm not sure it's really forbidden. But yes, RT2012 make building new houses more expensive, and you don't want to add a AC unit to that. Especially since most areas expressly forbid visible heatpump from the streets, so you have the added cost of having to hide them (In France, we basically have a big HoA in each city, it's called PLU and the mayor get to choose the color scheme and maximum height of your house, the maximum height of your trees and if you get to have AC or not).
Oh, noes! Europoors become even less competitive! If only they had not outlawed airco, they would be rich, rich I say!
But, ehhhhhm, yeah... What would you expect unions to do? Push their workers just a bit harder so they get through summer-no-matter-what? Free ice, and not just in their drinks, for everyone all around? Or just recognize that siesta was invented for, like, a reason and go with the deeply-historical flow?
Personally, I think "if you cannot provide a working environment where the ambient temperature is well below 30C (86 in Freedom Units), maybe the work should be postponed, at no cost to the worker" is not an unreasonable collective-bargaining position, but let the downvoting commence...
(P.S. Funny anecdote: in communist China [hiss, boo!] in the run-up to the 2008 Olympics, there was an official directive for working conditions in hot environments, which set thermal time limits, and completely outlawed work [hiss, boo!] when temperatures were above 32C [around 90 in Freedom Units] for the day. The officially published temperature in the newspaper was, without fail, 31C, even if Beijing was cooking, though the largest pollutants would be shut down, especially when the IOC was visiting... [Fox News would be proud!])
Given that the article specifically calls out a construction union and an agricultural union as two of the unions making this request, I don't think that's a realistic solution to the problem.
>The union said employers should take steps to cool down workplaces once temperatures exceed 24C, with workers able to stop working if temperatures reach 30C, or 27C for those doing manual labour or working outdoors.
Geneva already has a version of this. You have to stop outside work at 13h00 unless it's necessary, in which case you have to take 45min breaks for every 15 minutes of work. However the threshold isn't 27C but rather like 32C (from what I understand)
take 45min breaks for every 15 minutes of work
i guess you meant the reverse?
No, I literally meant that. It's an alternative to not working at all.
is it really an alternative? i'd rather do a 4 hour night shift without breaks than working 8 hours like this in the heat. what am i supposed to do with a 45 minute break? if i am a bricklayer or example, i'd still be stuck on a badly cooled construction site. seems totally not worth it to me. even worse considering that normally breaks are not paid.
if we assume that this is the middle of the day, so i work 2 hours normally, then 4 hours with 45 minute breaks and then another 2 hours normally, i might as well just work 2.5hours normally, take a 3 hour break and then work another 2.5 hours normally.
so no, really, i don't see any benefit in that arrangement.
normally breaks are not paid? in the us maybe
breaks are not work time. you are entitled to breaks, but unless they are quick bathroom breaks they don't count as work, and in places where you have to stamp in to start work you actually have to stamp out for each break. at least that's the law in germany. since germany is one of the countries with stronger employee protection globally, i can hardly imagine any country offering more than this.
Lmao, go work in construction a single day when it's 30c in the shade and come back to enlight us
Have you ever tried playing a sport in 32C and high humidity?
It's 45 min break.
who knows, it's europe.
(Slightly) better article: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jul/08/unions-e...
OP's submission seems very UK / TUC centric, also doesn't include something many here are bringing up, that they indeed plan to base it on the wet bulb temperature.
> they indeed plan to base it on the wet bulb temperature
WBGT != wet bulb : There's some nasty confusing terms here - and the Grauniad has also got the link wrong - their reporting has not just gotten more biased it has gotten much worse.
WetBulbGlobeTemp = 0.7WetBulbTemp + 0.2DryTemp + 0.1*BlackPaintTemp
In the shade with still air the WBGT approaches the actual temperature as humidity rises.
If sunny and humid it can be above the actual temperature.
For low-humidity moving air the WBGT might be noticeably cooler on a hot day.
At least that's the best summary I can give from the quick skim I looked at.
It's a crappy confusing 50s model supposed to approximate how warm it feels - needs a local meter to test - see image: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_globe_temperature
I find dry bulb temperature along with humidity are better when I travel, because they are more predictable based on historical data and you get to know what matters and make choices according to context. And more helpful in cool climates where damp cool days are nasty.
Thanks! I've added that link to the toptext.
I wish that society can learn about and apply the concept of a wet bulb temperature.
A dry bulb temperature of 30C contains little information regarding safety. Humans are wet and we cool ourselves with evaporation.
> Unions want enforceable workplace thermal limits, based on the wet bulb globe temperature (WBGT)
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jul/08/unions-e...
The submission just doesn't include it, but that seems to be the goal to apply that concept :)
First, weather services would need to report it. None of the ones I've seen do. Most don't even report feels-like temperature, they just report plain temperature... in my city (often windy and humid) it's all but useless, you can need a jacket with 21ºC one day and be comfortable without it with 16ºC the next.
My union is pushing for this, >28 WBGT and people can get out of work.
While they're at it, include schools too. Many school buildings have inadequate ventilation or climate control.
Sweating in >30°C high-CO2 spaces doesn't improve student's learning.
That's an interesting way to investigate how much public policy surrounding schools is actually focused on student education. I think you'd find that there would be significant fear around crime in an environment that already has a heightened risk of riots. For younger students the debate would shift to burden of additional childcare.
Not sure about the rioting part, maybe in some places on earth, but I'd say the burden of additional childcare is obviously an issue. So is just missing those hours of education.
Which is why perhaps classes should not be suspended in most and less extreme cases, but rather adjusted. And good teachers are already doing that. (And long-term, AC has to be a thing.)
That's been a thing for a long time. "Hitzefrei".
In Germany that's already a thing afaik
Since when one learns at school? You go there, listen some guys and then go back home and there the real learning happens: when you sit down, alone, facing a blank paper or a problem you need to solve based on the notes you took while at school.
I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high?
It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to work completely when it gets hot outside.
The south already mostly had AC. The north was too busy criticizing the south for things like closing shops in the afternoon, using blinds, eating late, and of course using AC. Now I guess they're beginning to realize that maybe it's not that the south is "lazy" but just adaptation.
Toning down the snark, to be honest, most places in countries like France and Germany didn't have AC because up to a few years ago, maybe they'd seriously need it one week per year or so... it didn't make sense for them to have it just to keep it turned off 99% of the time. I'm sure they will adapt, but it always takes some time to change the old ways.
When the temperature in Berlin is higher than 30degC, it becomes the south. People start to shout, honk, argue in the streets, stay up late.
We are affected by the weather much more than we'd like to admit.
Which bit of Europe are you talking about? Italy and Spain have AC everywhere.
Further north it hasn't been necessary until very recently, and now people are fighting in shops to buy portable units and there are going to be loads of permanent installations once things settle down later this year.
> Italy and Spain have AC everywhere
Southern Spain may, but it's virtually unheard of up here in Galicia/Asturias/Cantabria. Even many businesses in these parts don't have AC, and our Ourense region has pretty regularly had 40+ C days the last ~5 summers
In the Canary Islands, where it’s not just hot, but also humid, you’ll be pressed to find a restaurant with AC. Some businesses do, but frankly it’s quite rare, and often times I’ve entered a business and felt a slap of heat in the face. Quite different from Madrid
Even in new build homes? IIUC, many people in Europe were taking advantage of the incentives to install heat pumps as a back door mechanism to install A/C. After all a heat pump is essentially just A/C with a reverser switch.
But that only works in homes with forced air heating. Most of Europe doesn't use forced air heating. You can replace a boiler with a heat pump, but if you do you don't magically get A/C too.
In 2026 it seems silly to do new builds in a cold climate with anything but a forced air heat pump.
It also works in homes with wall heating. My parents now have wall cooling, which is much nicer than any forced air AC.
>wall cooling
That sounds like a big mold risk if its causing condensation in the walls. Wall heating, on the other hand sounds like a great idea.
We have underfloor heating/cooling; the only mould we see anywhere now is a small amount on the skylight, and previously some in the bathroom that was due to a leaking roof the builders have since made good.
Condensation needs humidity, not just a lower temperature. In summer, this is rare, even though we're in Berlin which is essentially built in the middle of a huge area of low-lying marshy woodlands.
Their walls are autoclaved aerated concrete, which is pretty good at both insulating (so less cooling needed) and absorbing/diffusing humidity, so I think in their case it's fine.
It's a pretty cool material!
It's nothing new. In 2003 there was a huge heatwave and thousands of people died:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heatwave
The reason is simple to understand. For the majority of the time the AC would sit idle. Some years AC is not required at all because the summer is mild. It's hard to get people to spend money on things that they don't need most of the time, it's like buying insurance.
Ok but you can use AC in the winter as well, you've an use it only to dry the air in your apartment. So this is not a real argument to me once you know what it can do and how it does it, there is no reason not to have one. Outside it is 25°C but I still run my AC at 22°C and it is super efficient as this is the case where AC excels at efficiency when the diff is small. It is a heat pump, sometimes I would run it when outside is colder and inside is veru warm as it moves heat faster than opening the window and waiting.
I know not AC are/were heat pumps but I don't know of any that are not anymore
>Ok but you can use AC in the winter as well
You can, but they already had a solution for winter.
You can still buy a cooling-only unit no problem. Slightly cheaper than a heat pump.
Yes but still, I don't think it is worth it when you can heqt with it more efficiently than burning gas or coal.
At least in the UK, there's a massive move to heat pumps. The problem is that it's only for heating, through the usual central heating systems - so it just replaces the boiler. It's almost unheard of to have one for air conditioning. Usually people with air-con get a portable one that's only for cooling.
> nothing new. In 2003 there was a huge heatwave and thousands of people died
It's completely new both in absolute temperatures, frequency and length of the heat waves
There were 2-3 days a year above 30C in London from 1995 to 2015. Since then it's been about 6 days a year, and this year has already broken that
or (to put it in an IT context) backup and DR services/hardware.
Things are already much better than they used to be. The 2003 heatwave killed ~70k. This year's heatwave was worse, but the number of deaths probably didn't go much beyond 20k.
We also recently had COVID to cull the herd. I imagine many people are missing from the stats because of it.
>I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this?
Because the Northern Europe didn't historically need it (average summer warm weather was like 75 degrees or less), so it was mostly seen as environmentally unfriendly and more of a stupid US indulgence, like being able-bodied but still going to the supermarket on a motorized wheelchair.
The South that did need it, has already had it for the most part.
Theres no such thing as “Europeans”. Where I live almost 70% has aircon, all new homes have it too or a proper heatpump.
It's kind of similar how there is no such thing as "Americans". Basically every state is as diverse as it's own country!
I think this was overhyped in the media.
I live at 51°N and apartments in my building that face the south largely have AC. I've seen a lot of AC company vans in my neighborhood lately, so I guess many people pulled that trigger this year.
Personally I went to the mountains as it's a 2h drive and naturally cool, moist air beats AC every time.
The people who refuse to install it and make up the majority of deaths are simply old - older than the average life expectancy in the US - and thus typically pinching pennies - especially that for the vast majority of their lives it wasn't necessary.
My father had AC installed a several years ago due to his health and it was probably working overtime this season.
My mother lives in a commie block that is well insulated and surrounded by green spaces, so the heatwave didn't affect her nearly as much.
My college friend discovered his heat pump is actually reversible, so now instead of heated, they have cooled floors. Unfortunately the device wasn't smart enough to on one hand use the heat to heat up tap water and the cold to cool the surroundings, but I guess you can't have everything.
Work is outside.
Workers are demanding to stay inside (with their AC) instead of going outside.
If you only need it for 4 days a year, it’s still a big expense that needs some thought
because "in ze yurop we don't need ze AC!" and here we are now....
It's mostly about the perception that AC is a band-aid that doesn't just stall fixing the root cause of climate change caused by excessive energy consumption, but actively makes it worse.
I think this view is changing as solar adoption takes off in southern Europe. Here in Spain we're in the position that market rates for electricity are often negative while the sun is shining (although these rates are not really passed onto consumers at present).
That makes additional cooling load almost a non-issue, and can help incentivise the transition from diesel boilers -> heat pumps, as well as driving the grid upgrades we sorely need to make use of all the solar capacity.
Why is this "a perception"? It's true isn't it? I'm going to get AC but the situation is quite worrying.
How is it true? Even if emissions went to 0 tomorrow we'd still have heatwaves in Europe. It'll take at least a century to do carbon sequestration back to pre industrial levels even on a very optimistic timeline. Until that's made a good amount of progress, it's common sense to have AC in the places where the most vulnerable gather. Their homes, public transport, train stations, hospices, hospitals.
It isn't necessarily true. Here (bottom of the sea) it's only hot when the there isn't any clouds, so solar energy that produces the heat is also producing the electricity to run the AC.
It's also a misdirection of guilt. It's not the accumulated CO2 from the decades of burning all kinds of shit that is driving the weather, it's your personal AC unit.
You're describing a very new and not-yet-realized state of affairs where large amounts of power comes from solar. In that world, then yeah obviously the initial concern isn't valid.
Not realized? I live in the world where I do have 1 KW/h of solar panels on my roofs and I know some people who have 4 times that. That should be able to run the split system (which I don't have, so I'm not the best informed here).
It's fair to criticize this from the social equality perspective, but there are times when the network is saturated with zero emission electricity.
But then again, should I also not use the electric oven (I don't have the actual gas oven for the same reasons I have ) after dark when it's not windy?
Indeed. It is true. However, it's not exactly helping if the other side of the pond burns gas turbines to power their AI dreams and tells us to "just get AC bro".
AC does make the problem worse, the issue is just that climate change is mostly out of Europe's control.
How would installing AC help if your job is outside? It would actually make it worse!
We'll just sweat it out and complain. It's more fun!
Collective cultural delusion? Koreans think leaving a fan on while you're sleeping is deadly... people are weird.
How countries with wet/hot climate that achieved economic success have solved it?
Because my cynical mind tells me that the only thing it will result in is 1. Extremely low productivity 2. Hiring outside of unions.
Union will push for “union only jobs” and that’s going to result in even less productivity OR robotization of agriculture and construction.
Hiring workers naturally adapted to the work conditions can help. Also providing a constant supply of water bottles
In Cyprus that means no work for more than half a year.
US Military developed the wet bulb index in the 1950s for this purpose and it’s still used today.
It's almost constantly above 30°C in the day where I'm at. Instant permanent vacation.
We should implement this in Florida. I wouldn't mind a five month vacation.
It's already somewhat implemented in Florida. OSHA requires employers to protect employees from extreme heat. It doesn't explicitly require air conditioning, but air conditioning is standard practice in Florida so not providing it would open up employers to an OSHA complaint.
For outdoor work, protection from extreme heat generally implies shade, hydration, frequent breaks, et cetera.
OSHA? Isn't that a DEI program?
Your workplace in Florida has an interior temperature of 86F? This is about temperature in the workplace, not outside temperatures.
Most remotely modern interior spaces in Florida are going to be air conditioned so this is already not a problem in Florida.
> This is about temperature in the workplace, not outside temperatures
According to the article, the 30C threshold is for "more demanding jobs in sectors like agriculture and construction", which generally take place outdoors
Plenty of construction work takes place indoors as well. That said, the linked article isn't very clear on that aspect. It also mentions a minimum temperature of 16C in the UK which outdoors would be quite a lovely day, but rather cold for an office or other indoor workspace.
Do you have to live & work in un-ac'd buildings?
Cos today in my pokey town, my house is 30°C, my local library 28°C the gym is at least 25°C and the outside 31°C at a dew point of 15°C. Its not Florida but its the UK and there’s no relief.
From the article, it's for "jobs in sectors like agriculture and construction". Would be interesting to learn about how this kind of work is managed in hotter climates.
For office work, a lot of European countries (especially the UK) haven't invested in AC as much as the rest of the world because they haven't needed to. This is especially apparent in housing, where working from home is becoming difficult in these higher temperatures.
> how this kind of work is managed in hotter climates.
Natural adaptation.
I play games with a guy who does concrete work in Arizona, he mostly works at night.
I lived for a while in Tucson, Arizona.
Days could be brutally hot ( easily over 100 F ), but there was little humidity. My transportation was a motorcycle ( with additional heat radiating off the engine ), so mid often feel a little uncomfortable, but it was definitely livable.
Interestingly, homeowners often used evaporative ‘swamp coolers’ instead of AC. A big benefit of low humidity.
I lived in the southern US for a long time. Any office I ever worked in would send everyone home if the AC was broken in the summer.
I was about to make the same comment about Minnesota, but I'd only get a three month vacation.
I heard about a man that was finishing his work working in a greenhouse. He felt ill and dizzy and tried to go home. Sadly the car was parked in the sun. He entered in the car, fainted and died by heat stroke.
That's not going to work in the South. Demand adapted buildings, housing, and AC where applicable.
It's specifically for "jobs in sectors like agriculture and construction", not sure better buildings will help the workers out on fields and construction sites much.
Although one temperature threshold probably don't make much sense, a strict 30C across the entire continent would mean massively different things in different countries, in many countries that mean basically the entire summer off, every year.
This would be wet bulb, not dry bulb: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48861424
It matters when the heat stress continues when you're not at work. You can tolerate a lot more if your body gets actual breaks from the heat.
It's not clear from the article, but I think it's obvious they are referring to jobs that require being outdoors
Most places in the south already have AC
And the ones that don't have it, oh well, too bad :)
Read the article. This applies to outdoor jobs only.
Yes, outdoor work should already have had this!
The south of what?
Trees and climbers are the best AC.
Anything above 86 F? That's the whole summer. I see this as a negotiating position. They'll probably agree on something closer to 33 C (~90F). They have to. If they do nothing people will literally die. Climate change has consequences.
30 isn't even that hot. I hope this is just their opening bid.
99.9% of all mass in the solar system is the Sun, a giant nuclear reactor. No one should ever accept energy conservation.
> Under the proposals, employers within the European Union would be legally required to suspend work if temperatures exceeded 30C
That's... uh... the entire summer in most of southern Europe?
I agree with the general intention, but the thresholds probably need to take into account humidity as well (i.e. be based on wet bulb temperatures), and I don't really see how one can apply a one-size-fits-all policy all the way from Greece to Scandinavia...
southern europeans have had to deal with the northern cultural view that we're lazy, and modern work culture imported from those countries has virtually ended siesta. well, now it's hot over there too. we can be nice and tell them "see?" or we can be mean and have them live with the consequences of their moral positions. Right now I'm leaning a bit to the later, but it might just be the heat getting to me :P
I’d lean towards writing an economics masters thesis that demonstrate that climate change will shrink GDP -A% per +/-B degrees/humidity variation from temperate, demonstrate this effect in past versus present data for Greece, modify the basic productivity formula underlying all of economics to include “divergence from temperate conditions”, and then finally show that when run against different world regions parallels, each region with positive (hot/humid) variances from temperate is commonly associated with the “lazy” stereotypes imposed on workers in high-divergence regions by residents of low-divergence regions. But sadly I have to get a job first, so maybe in a couple years.
_laughs in maltese_
I find this funny. Temps are always above 30C here during summer.
With or without AC?
Vapor compression refrigeration has been mass produced for a century. Add a reversing valve and you have a heat pump. Europe better get started on installs, it’s not going to cool down.
I have a heat pump based water heater installed in the garage. One side benefit is the garage got cooled down. It used to be that the garage got very hot during hot days. Now it’s cool.
What makes you think that this isn't happening?
China ramps up production & shipping to Europe [1] and a quick glance at Google Trends for Germany, UK and France AC install searches are up 5x from last year, and last year was already double or more of the previous years.
1: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202607/1364856.shtml
I have a warmtepomp -- it's great, but it is cooling the house, not the air a only gets it to 5 day degrees down. It's mandatory for new houses in Amsterdam I think and there seem to plans to retrofit old buildings. It helps that we also produce it, but the usual types tried to sabotage that too last time.
As a native English speaker, I love how some Dutch terms are clearly understandable to me without knowing Dutch, “warmtepomp” is a wonderful word :)
Dutch is the English that makes sense (not a native speaker of either).
30C isn't that bad if the humidity is low and you are in shade.
Now try in the sun behind a truck laying asphalt
Except for a large part of Europe, the relative humidity is quite high. So, they're suffering more than most. I say this as someone who once lived in a desert and is well accustomed to 40-50 C summers.
Heatwave from a few weeks ago had 70% humidity where I live. It's brutal with no AC to dehumidify.
70% humidity is hell.
Turns out in the 21st century the technology that will boost worker productivity in Europe will not be AI, it will be AC.
Living in the south of France outside tourist havens (I had one when renting near St-Tropez), the current situation is that serious AC is considered something for the rich.
Not because AC itself is particularly expensive, but because almost no rental apartment has it because installing AC during the construction is basically forbidden due to green laws (RT 2012) so you need to own.
And owning something decent not in the damn city itself is expensive as fuck these days.
RT2012 is the reason my uncle installed a reversible heatpump to replace the cheap electric radiator in the house he renovated, so i'm not sure it's really forbidden. But yes, RT2012 make building new houses more expensive, and you don't want to add a AC unit to that. Especially since most areas expressly forbid visible heatpump from the streets, so you have the added cost of having to hide them (In France, we basically have a big HoA in each city, it's called PLU and the mayor get to choose the color scheme and maximum height of your house, the maximum height of your trees and if you get to have AC or not).
Oh, noes! Europoors become even less competitive! If only they had not outlawed airco, they would be rich, rich I say!
But, ehhhhhm, yeah... What would you expect unions to do? Push their workers just a bit harder so they get through summer-no-matter-what? Free ice, and not just in their drinks, for everyone all around? Or just recognize that siesta was invented for, like, a reason and go with the deeply-historical flow?
Personally, I think "if you cannot provide a working environment where the ambient temperature is well below 30C (86 in Freedom Units), maybe the work should be postponed, at no cost to the worker" is not an unreasonable collective-bargaining position, but let the downvoting commence...
(P.S. Funny anecdote: in communist China [hiss, boo!] in the run-up to the 2008 Olympics, there was an official directive for working conditions in hot environments, which set thermal time limits, and completely outlawed work [hiss, boo!] when temperatures were above 32C [around 90 in Freedom Units] for the day. The officially published temperature in the newspaper was, without fail, 31C, even if Beijing was cooking, though the largest pollutants would be shut down, especially when the IOC was visiting... [Fox News would be proud!])
The downvoting would be because of your claims that europeans have outlawed air conditioning
No, I'm pretty sure that's not it... (and I say that knowing that sarcasm is both dead and pretty hard to detect online, at the same time, no less)
No, there were plenty of other reasons as well. I didn't downvote, but I wanted to at the second word.
Seems cheaper to install AC.
Given that the article specifically calls out a construction union and an agricultural union as two of the unions making this request, I don't think that's a realistic solution to the problem.
Probably a good argument for the agreement; puts teeth behind worker safety/comfort.
In the farm?
Tractors come with AC
As anyone familiar with farms will tell you: it basically all happens on tractors!
I expect some people here think we don’t have tractors in Europe.