> And you won’t get to brag that you own a computer from Iowa.
South Dakota. Gateway was HQ’d in North Sioux City, SD.
There is also a South Sioux City, NE, though to my knowledge no computer manufacturers have had a presence there.
My dad worked at Gateway in the mid-late ‘90s and early ‘00s. Employee perks were pretty decent for the time; for example, he could borrow a laptop to play with and learn on at home — we used this almost entirely to play games, since we had a hand-me-down 486 at the time. They would also give you a PC in agreement for continued employment for N years. We got a Pentium III 550 MHz screamer of a system, which was absolutely bonkers for my young self.
You're right! That was a not entirely clear enough reference to Gateway 2000's first ad, in 1987, which famously used the headline "Computers from Iowa?"
> They would also give you a PC in agreement for continued employment for N years.
Do you mean that in exchange for accepting a PC, he had to agree to a multiple-year enforced contract? Is the right to leave a company even a right that one can sign away in the US? Would people really do that for a few thousand dollars? That seems shockingly close to indentured servitude... "we'll pay two months of your rent up front, but you can't quit for five years no matter what we do to you."
No, you can’t force people to continue working at your company by contract.
These agreements work like signing bonuses. The compensation is given up front, but if you leave before N months then you need to return the compensation or some times a pro-rated version of it.
There’s a whole “pillar7” subreddit about United Wholesale Mortgage (UWM) if you’re interested in reading about their employment practices. They were forcing people into the office five days a week during peak COVID. It sounds like it’s a mess over there.
I personally know some lower income people who have been negatively impacted by the people promise.
Number 3 sounds like nothing out of the ordinary? Any bonus you get from an employer, granted or otherwise, has to be taxed at some point. This just sounds like a weird signing bonus.
Yeah, at one point, an ex-employer gave me a relatively substantial loan (low-mid 5 digits). They were willing to give it to me interest-free, but the accountant said they had to charge me at least prime rate, otherwise that interest would have been taxable. Which was all fine by me, I was going through a divorce that tanked my credit (now ex let a car get repossessed that was in both our names), so no-one was giving me that kind of loan unsecured, let alone at prime rate.
UWM, United Wholesale Mortgage. Their location near me (Detroit suburbs) has closed, but not after getting an awful reputation that's somehow worse than Quicken or Rocket Mortgage.
I've never worked there, I've only had the pleasure of knowing some former employees that were way happier at RKT, and the observation that the most toxic manager I have ever worked under [0] apparently had a pretty good run there after he got booted from our org [1]. What was more striking was, I had a very short stint at an org that tried to 'Emulate' their management style and it was the fastest I ever left a job.
[0] - The kind of guy who's previous wives both left him so hard they didn't even try for custody, so he was having a 'thing' with a different department's manager while her husband was dying of cancer. The creepiest moment was when she brought her kid to the office and the <10 year old kid was dressed up in the same outfit as this 40-50 something dude.
[1] - He eventually got too bold and turned on his 'lieutenant' (who also for a time would dress just like him). Once that dev lead finished the HR 'Training' that they were subjected to, he stopped the behavior of preventing the dev groups from communicating with each other. That cross communication led to a bit of a quiet internal revolt across the whole Dev org.
Sounds like a typical retention/signing bonus, except structured so that you get the bonus up front and pay the tax later. The main question I would have is whether people who took it understood what they signed up for (i.e. were they misled somehow?). It's a bit weird for it to be mandatory but if you don't want to be on the hook for it, you could just keep the money in a savings account until the term expires.
From what I've seen where I work the majority of "work" computers and laptops don't get returned if the employee separates for whatever reason. So I can see some companies wanting to make it a formal loan or have some means to recover the lost value if it isn't returned. My employer doesn't, because the residual value of a 2-3 year old laptop is not even worth anyone's time beyond making a few perfunctory requests to return it.
Eh, the requirement to return your work-provided laptop is about as strong, legally speaking, as a requirement to pay back the value of it when you leave. Perhaps even stronger (because a work laptop is never really even a loan to you). I would suggest your workplace is a bit of an outlier: most places I'm aware of make pretty sure the laptop is returned, even if only because of the risk of company information leaking out otherwise (some places I know might let an employee keep an old laptop that's being replaced after they have wiped it, perhaps with all storage removed entirely).
Yeah, I've generally had to return laptops, unless the company itself is closing down (startups) or such (which I've been "fortunate" on, I once got to keep a nice iMac 27" and 27" Apple display, and then an M3 Max 96GB MBP). But usually monitors, other accessories are "you can keep those".
"Education incentives" at companies can be similar.
For instance, maybe they pay for your trip to AWS Re:Invent and a couple of cert fees ($X,000.00) with the agreement you stay for a year or two. As long as you stay for the year or two, you don't own them any money. If you leave before then, they send you a prorated bill or take it out of your last paycheck.
The idea is that companies don't want to train you on their dime for you to use that training to immediately take a new job somewhere else (or worse, a competitor).
No, as others explained, it was “you owe us $X if you quit before $DATE.” IIRC, they had a few models to choose from, with different amounts of time required. The Pentium III was, I think, a 3 year commitment; a Celeron was I think 2 years.
Sioux City is near a tripoint where Iowa, South Dakota, and Nebraska located in the Missouri River floodplain so it is natural they would have operations in two states at some point in its history. I just drove through here and spent a weekend in the area, Ponca State Park (NE) is lovely!
It is effectively the same city in three states, but most of it is in Iowa. Of course there are separate entities because it's in different states but if it weren't they would have all combined.
Actually yes China. Hong Kong specifically before the manufacturing boom moved to mainland. By the 90s Japan had lost its DRAM edge and was not making any PC peripherals en masse. TSMC was barely three years old in 1990.
TSMC wasn't the major player until relatively recently. SuperMicro, Foxconn, Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, etc. have existed for quite some time and are all Taiwanese.
In the UK a typical Gateway 2000 desktop PC came with a Trinitron screen, made by Sony in South Wales.
Their business model for the UK was the same tax scam as Apple, Dell and others. Everything was mail order, operating out of Dublin.
Their products had quality multimedia toys (CD, speakers, decent screen, keyboard with extra programmable keys) combined with decent CPU/RAM/ROM/graphics for the price.
I did support for a small company that bought Gateway (in the UK) and there certainly were no 'Made in USA' labels anywhere.
I really liked their machines and I bought one myself because it had that Trinitron screen at a bargain price. I was very happy with that machine. In the UK they went a bit sour after dropping the '2000' branding with the cow spots.
Their laptops were not as successful as their desktop machines, where they never quite managed to compete in either the 'value for money' or 'nice to have' sectors. Dell, Toshiba and even Compaq had preferable laptops.
Their success in the UK was the Dell model (Ireland tax fiddle), except they didn't make you wait weeks for your machine (like Dell did, with it having to be 'built to order').
> Their business model for the UK was the same tax scam as Apple, Dell and others. Everything was mail order, operating out of Dublin.
I think to this day Monster Cable (ugh) still operates a similar scam, where the US company licenses all their cable technology (also ugh) from Monster Cable Bermuda, which exists only in a small four story office building that is the legal HQ of 15,000+ companies.
The hippie copy mentioned was the ad my dad bought our first PC from. He was coming back from a business trip and asked the company computer guy to help him choose one for our family. We ended up with the 486DX2-50MHz "Integrated VESA System" [1].
Calling the Gateway 2000 customer support 800 number was my introduction to understanding computers and I am grateful to their staff for being patient with a 12 year old.
We got rid of it in the early aughts, but I kept the CPU all these years. Recently I found a similar Gateway slimline desktop (badged a 486DX2-66MHz) and have been using Claude to port things to DOS on it, like Cave Story [2][3]. The original 50MHz CPU still works.
For a while in the 90's, I did Gateway 2000 tech support. It's nice to hear you had a good experience :) The mandate was to move quickly while also solving the customer's problem (which is harder than it sounds over the phone).
I was very young and I tried to upgrade the RAM on our gateway computer. I used the wrong type of RAM and fried (or broke) the motherboard. When I talked to gateway support, I think the person on the other end could tell what happened but took pity on me and allowed us to get a new motherboard under warranty. I had completely forgot that story until your comment here, thanks for the reminder on why I double check all the specs before rummaging around in there.
That's great they replaced it under warranty. I thought I broke the IDE connector once on the motherboard when re-connecting the cable because a pin was missing. The Gateway support rep calmed me down on the phone and that's how I learned about cable keying.
>Calling the Gateway 2000 customer support 800 number was my introduction to understanding computers and I am grateful to their staff for being patient with a 12 year old.
You had a better experience than I had. Bought a Gateway, the cheap hard disk in it went back within a few weeks. Took two calls to support (each putting me on hold for maybe 45 minutes) to get them to admit the hard disk was bad and each call was quite long I remember.
They sent out a raw hard disk and I had to install Windows and all the drivers by hand over the weekend because of course it is my fault they used the cheapest drives they could find.
I think they charged me for the new drive and said they would rebate it if they got the old drive back within a month. I think I was able to use the package they sent the replacement in to mail the disk back, but I had to pay the postage.
I had a similar experience in the plentiful 4 era but they were nice and gave me an hard drive and the reinstall cd. It was really nice of them, the computer was probably not in warranty or barely was with a few days or weeks left and they really were nice to teenage me. This was a 40gb seagate hdd and windows xp pre sp2 to date myself lol
I've am working my way through benchmarking it on a few different CPUS [1]. A Pentium Overdrive 83MHz gets around 30fps, and the 486DX2-66MHz around 20fps. Because the 50MHz will use a bus speed to 25MHz I am expecting it to be 10-15fps.
Even with a lower frame rate gameplay is relatively smooth with having a fixed-timestamp mode [2].
The biggest difference in performance is the sound backend [3]. Gravis Ultrasound and Adlib for some reason halve the framerate on all cpus and it's the next challenge to point Claude at.
I worked at a mall Radio Shack in ‘98-‘99. A Gateway store opened up at the other end of the mall. This being the times they were, Radio Shack had partnered with Compaq to sell P2 & (I think) P3 desktops, the beginning of its downfall of selling other companies’ stuff and losing out to places like Best Buy.
We used to emphasize that you could buy a computer with us and go home with it today, whereas down the hall, you could buy it but it would come in the mail later. Their store had demos and the big cow-patterned boxes around, but no inventory.
Also around then, I applied for and got a Gateway-branded, Holstein-patterned credit card, which I promptly maxed out to buy my own first modern computer, a P2 build not from Gateway, but from Midwest Micro. I learned Red Hat Linux on it, reading the manual on break at work even before the computer came, and it began my real career.
So lots of adjacency to Gateway, but no real firsthand experience. They were definitely a force.
Before I worked at TSS doing in-home PC repair, I did a short stint at Radio Shack and got the Compaq experience you described. I remember going to the introduction event for the Compaq roll-out into Radio Shack stores, I was sitting in a large hotel ballroom with like 100 other Radio Shack sales folks. The Compaq guy was asking questions from the audience and I was literally the only person there who could answer questions like "what motherboard interface did the Pentium 2 use" (it was the first cpu to use a slot (Slot 1) versus a socket which was a big deal back then). I had dropped into the event straight after class at ITT, so I was just wearing casual attire and didn't think anything of it. Apparently that was a mistake, one of the higher up sales guys got offended and complained to my manager. I was offended that apparently no one else there knew anything technical at all, lol. Thankfully I left that job not long after.
I was spending all my time learning computers, and I was starting to build systems for family and friends. Once I was lent out to another Radio Shack store that was short handed and the other salesmen kinda lamented not being able to afford the Compaq a customer was buying. Afterwords, I tried to explain to him that I could easily build him a nicer system for a fraction of what we sold Compaq's for. He was still not interested, I think he was way more broke than I realized. I grew up broke too, but I also had my eyes set on improving my situation. Was kind of a wake-up-moment that most people around me had minimal ambition about this.
I also remember having to push cell phones at RS then too, I think we pushed a lot of Sprint phones. I was still fairly young and was just learning about phreaking, but I remember my boss telling people Sprint phones couldn't be cloned like analog cell phones could back then (I disagreed, but I had to agree it was harder at least). It was apparently a thing that your analog cell phone could be cloned over the air and suddenly your bill would be crazy that month. I only ever heard rumors about that kind of thing happening.
> I thhink he was way more broke than I realized. I grew up broke too, but I also had my eyes set on improving my situation. Was kind of a wake-up-moment that most people around me had minimal ambition about this.
I feel like I'm missing something, because it's not clear at all why that would be your takeaway. Why would "not trusting a temporary employee that I don't usually work with to allocate my home computer budget" somehow imply "broke and unwilling to do anything about it"? Without more detail, that seems like a kinda weird inference to make.
It was the sadness in his voice and the look in his eyes that aligned with his words. I certainly experienced plenty of skepticism directed at me based on my age in my youth, this was not that.
As a young Midwestern nerd in the 90s, getting one of those cow boxes delivered to our home was better than Christmas. (Christmas happens every year!). Somehow I can still remember the new computer smell…
I went from an unknown intel processor (pre-celeron) I think doing like ~75mhz and 2gb hard drive w/ 8mb ram to a gateway computer P4 w/ 1.3 or 1.4 GHZ, 40gb HD, and 128mb of ram - it was insane the jump. I do give credit to that old machine as I learned so much trying to optimize that processor to do things my friends were doing on their faster machines. Crazy times.
As an advertiser these are unusual but the clear strategy their marketing team took was to make their ads entertaining enough for people to want to read them.
These old Gateway ads made me remember ads a vendor ran in Computer Shopper featuring bikini-clad women. Their ads weren't as good as Gateway's, I guess, because I can't remember their name.
Agreed. They are good ads if we're still discussing them. This is one of those critics that assumes the current times are the 'correct taste' and anything foreign to their taste is poorly done, even when it resulted in sales.
Author here, from another issue I sent about my definition of bad ads for this newsletter:
"tl;dr While I do exaggerate the “badness” of 80s tech ads to make things more fun, a nostalgic ad is not the same thing as an effective ad. What we see in advertising today is so depressing because it is often so bland AND more effective than its more playful predecessors."
They are fun to look at now. And soooo much more creative than marketing crap from today. But they're still 12-page long marketing gimmicks. I'd still take them over today's ads any day of the week, and that's why I spend dozens of hours every month tracking them down and learning their stories
I think there's "bad" in the sense that it didn't accomplish the goal of selling a product (maybe not the case here) and "bad" in the sense that it made many readers cringe or was seen as stupid/tacky. I'm seeing more of the latter in these ads.
Mid 90s I worked IT in aerospace. Had a pretty big facility and when I joined they were using Gateway PCs for everything (besides Mac and Unix workstations.)
I set up perhaps a hundred of them in those years and did RMAs etc. They were good machines for the time, was happy with support. Built my own Frankenstein from extra parts.
As GW tripped over itself a few times we gradually started moving to Dells. :-/
I seem to remember computer ads in 90s had lots of rural and farming-related elements; I wonder if that was an attempt to appeal to the part of the population that probably had the least idea what a computer was. At that time I also recall some jokes about "the farmer in the Dell".
Another sizeable PC vendor, Midwest Micro (also traded under the name Systemax), was headquartered near the sub-1,000 population town of Fletcher, OH (out amidst farm fields). I can't say I remember their ads specifically, but I could see rural theming being a thing with them.
I had a Customer who bought tons of Gateway PCs. They had a "pasture" cubicle full of foam cows. It was quite a sight.
A friend of mine had a Gateway PC at home (the first Pentium Pro I ever saw-- his stepfather splurged on it). The dog got ahold of the foam cow and tore a leg off, so my friend used markers to draw on "gore". I'll never forget the maimed Gateway cow.
I didn't have a Gateway 2000, but my friend did, and it came with an amazing keyboard with programmable macros. I was able to get one of those and used it for a few years, and never understood why such a thing wasn't more common.
FWIW I love 90s ads, especially the video game ads. Electronic Gaming Monthly would bombard you with "extreme in your face 'tude" for even the most prosaic games. I loved the Gaiares ad, with a mulleted, chain wearing professional gamer Jamie Bunker saying "this game really smokes."
Every month, when I got my BYTE magazine in the mail, the first thing I would do was to find the Gateway 2000 ad, admire the cheezy graphics and copy, and then devour every detail of the specs of their high-end machine, tracking the increase in power and decrease in price. I bought several of their machines over the years.
ahh yes, the early 90s. computer shopper, datanet, pc magazine, a $59 seller's permit from the state of california that came with a magic number that would make distributors sell to you at cost for both computer and bike parts, automated touch tone fax back information systems, the absolute cheapest xt clone that could be assembled from parts from the computer shopper, ups cash on delivery, genie, prodigy, the bbs scene, the dreaded "rma number" and the subsequent wait, searching the space of physical card positions, jumper settings and tsr drivers that would allow the mouse, the soundcard and the game to all work at the same time, the borland compiler suite, mark williams coherent, os/2 2.0, trumpet winsock, slackware linux floppies...
Borrowed my mothers credit card to buy a modem and sound card from Surplus Software, it was like a miracle when an Airborne Express van showed up the next day with my goods.
These ads feel like a mental cleanse compared to ads now, which are focus grouped (and now AI polished) until there is nothing left but soulless gray goo, devoid of any personality whatsoever. Nice to see color again on the You Got It, Baby ad.
This brings back memories. In my city, there were no computers for sale in regular stores in the early 90s. My first computer was a second-hand ZX Spectrum. I still remember how excited I was when I finally got one.
I had at least one Gateway 2000 desktop and several laptops over time. All but the last laptop were lovely machines. The last looked good on paper, but it was thicker and heavier than it should have been, and start losing keycaps fairly quickly.
Gateway 2000 (and subsequently Gateway) was one of my favorite of brands. It was like the Bikes Direct of PC brands - the components you care about on a frame that you don’t.
When they opened retail outlets it was the beginning of the end. That was the peak of their growth rate and the moment when Dell really started to go after them.
These old ads are great, really takes me back to that era. In the mid to late 1990's I was a pimply faced youth in community college and picked up a part time job doing "PC repair". I couldn't put my finger on it, but the outfit carried itself like it was a major corporation despite being a small office, it was called TSS (Technology Service Solutions). The majority of the other guys were always working in the field so I wouldn't get to know them until many months later. When I got my first paycheck (physical paper), it said IBM on it. I asked my boss why this was and he nonchalantly said "we just use IBM's payroll system". I was very confused but didn't ask any further questions.
What I came to learn later was that TSS was IBM's PC service division which it had sold off to Kodak just a few years prior. I spent most of my time doing contracted in-home PC repair for all the major PC brands of the era, including Gateway. I'd get a service call (on a RIM bullfrog two-way pager), call the customer and tell them "Hi, I'm with <major brand computer>, give me directions to your house and I'll fix your system". Most of the consumer PC manufacturers were unequipped to provide any kind of in-field repair service on their products, so they hired TSS for this. If you bought any kind of extended warranty on your PC then you were paying for TSS to show up on-site at your home to fix it. Apparently this was better than regional central repair hubs.
Let me tell you, there were some seriously crazy stories from the front line. Most of our work was through Sears for Packard Bell (cheapest machines sell higher volume and therefore require the most service, not even counting for PB's lower quality). We serviced Acer, Sony Vaio, Gateway, Dell, and other brands, and did other point-of-sale and other contract work. I remember servicing the Gateway Destination system - that 35" CRT was huge for even a TV at that time. But being up close I realized it actually kinda sucked to use as a computer monitor. People tried to set them up in their living rooms, so imagine using your computer in the living room instead of an office, and required sitting next to the 35" display meant you saw the CRT up close which just meant the low resolution was blown up larger and you could see the physically larger pixels up close.
So yea, showing up to peoples houses meant going to a lot of random peoples houses which was mostly fine, but occasionally terrible. I had multiple instances of working on computers in a house having brownouts. "So wait, the computer reboots when the lights in the house flicker? And dispatch has sent me out with a new display for you... yea, you're gonna have to get the power company out here...". One time, I was sent to a house that was barely a shack in the woods. Main room had a light bulb hanging from the ceiling. That call in particular stands out in my mind, nice people, a 70 year skinny old dude in overalls and a 400' bearded lady in a shack. I couldn't do anything to make their Gatway machine work better as it was the power lines (lightbulb was visibly flickering the whole time I was there, that poor PC never stood a chance), so I showed her how to play her music CD's in PC (between power sags that crashed the machine) and she was tickled pink. One of my trainers had a couple horror stories: one dudes house was an underground bunker. My coworker was sent to replace a modem. After, the client couldn't find his Solitaire on his desktop, so he locked the door and demanded my coworker fix his Solitaire game before he could leave. My coworker obviously had nothing to do with that issue, but he recreated the shortcut to the desktop and was set free.
Eventually I jumped ship from TSS to IBM proper, it was a fun adventure. But that year and a half slinging in-home service calls in the evenings was an interesting time.
The cow-print branding was a masterclass in building an approachable identity for a commodity business, but these specific spreads really highlight how weird 90s tech marketing was. I'd forgotten they tried to lean so hard into the 'cowboy' persona for a PC builder. It's wild to see how much margin they must have had to afford these multi-page glossy inserts in every issue of PC Magazine.
It wasn't just PC Magazine, it was every PC magazine.
They must have negotiated some hefty discounts, because page rates were astronomical.
Even so - the incredible thing about PC magazines was that they were read by people who wanted to buy PCs, so the ROI on that kind of niche targeted ad spend was always worthy.
> And you won’t get to brag that you own a computer from Iowa.
South Dakota. Gateway was HQ’d in North Sioux City, SD.
There is also a South Sioux City, NE, though to my knowledge no computer manufacturers have had a presence there.
My dad worked at Gateway in the mid-late ‘90s and early ‘00s. Employee perks were pretty decent for the time; for example, he could borrow a laptop to play with and learn on at home — we used this almost entirely to play games, since we had a hand-me-down 486 at the time. They would also give you a PC in agreement for continued employment for N years. We got a Pentium III 550 MHz screamer of a system, which was absolutely bonkers for my young self.
You're right! That was a not entirely clear enough reference to Gateway 2000's first ad, in 1987, which famously used the headline "Computers from Iowa?"
https://buttondown.com/suchbadtechads/archive/gateway-2000-p...
Ah, right. Good callout!
> They would also give you a PC in agreement for continued employment for N years.
Do you mean that in exchange for accepting a PC, he had to agree to a multiple-year enforced contract? Is the right to leave a company even a right that one can sign away in the US? Would people really do that for a few thousand dollars? That seems shockingly close to indentured servitude... "we'll pay two months of your rent up front, but you can't quit for five years no matter what we do to you."
No, you can’t force people to continue working at your company by contract.
These agreements work like signing bonuses. The compensation is given up front, but if you leave before N months then you need to return the compensation or some times a pro-rated version of it.
There's actually a mortgage company that does worse; They call it the 'People Promise', and it sounds like a bonus, but;
1. It's actually a loan.
2. If you leave or are terminated at any point for the period, you have to pay back the ENTIRE loan amount.
3. Because it's a loan, if you -do- survive employment through the term, guess what, you now have to pay tax on the 'forgiven loan'.
4. If you don't take it, you don't get hired.
There’s a whole “pillar7” subreddit about United Wholesale Mortgage (UWM) if you’re interested in reading about their employment practices. They were forcing people into the office five days a week during peak COVID. It sounds like it’s a mess over there.
I personally know some lower income people who have been negatively impacted by the people promise.
Number 3 sounds like nothing out of the ordinary? Any bonus you get from an employer, granted or otherwise, has to be taxed at some point. This just sounds like a weird signing bonus.
Yeah, at one point, an ex-employer gave me a relatively substantial loan (low-mid 5 digits). They were willing to give it to me interest-free, but the accountant said they had to charge me at least prime rate, otherwise that interest would have been taxable. Which was all fine by me, I was going through a divorce that tanked my credit (now ex let a car get repossessed that was in both our names), so no-one was giving me that kind of loan unsecured, let alone at prime rate.
Why not name the company?
UWM, United Wholesale Mortgage. Their location near me (Detroit suburbs) has closed, but not after getting an awful reputation that's somehow worse than Quicken or Rocket Mortgage.
Well, they still have their Pontiac HQ.
I've never worked there, I've only had the pleasure of knowing some former employees that were way happier at RKT, and the observation that the most toxic manager I have ever worked under [0] apparently had a pretty good run there after he got booted from our org [1]. What was more striking was, I had a very short stint at an org that tried to 'Emulate' their management style and it was the fastest I ever left a job.
[0] - The kind of guy who's previous wives both left him so hard they didn't even try for custody, so he was having a 'thing' with a different department's manager while her husband was dying of cancer. The creepiest moment was when she brought her kid to the office and the <10 year old kid was dressed up in the same outfit as this 40-50 something dude.
[1] - He eventually got too bold and turned on his 'lieutenant' (who also for a time would dress just like him). Once that dev lead finished the HR 'Training' that they were subjected to, he stopped the behavior of preventing the dev groups from communicating with each other. That cross communication led to a bit of a quiet internal revolt across the whole Dev org.
https://www.uwm.com/
Each of your points escalated over the last one, somehow.
Sounds like a typical retention/signing bonus, except structured so that you get the bonus up front and pay the tax later. The main question I would have is whether people who took it understood what they signed up for (i.e. were they misled somehow?). It's a bit weird for it to be mandatory but if you don't want to be on the hook for it, you could just keep the money in a savings account until the term expires.
> They call it the 'People Promise', and it sounds like a bonus, but
> Because it's a loan, if you -do- survive employment through the term, guess what, you now have to pay tax on the 'forgiven loan'.
Did you have a point to make here? Do you think you don't have to pay income taxes on bonuses?
The point is that this bonus is effectively a condition of hiring that has strings attached
Usually signing bonuses are "pay back all or a pro-rated percentage if you leave before [date]"
Sure, but that's just lending you a computer at that point, unless they expect you to cover the depreciation cost or something when returning it.
I would guess you would owe some agreed value of the PC at the time you received it.
From what I've seen where I work the majority of "work" computers and laptops don't get returned if the employee separates for whatever reason. So I can see some companies wanting to make it a formal loan or have some means to recover the lost value if it isn't returned. My employer doesn't, because the residual value of a 2-3 year old laptop is not even worth anyone's time beyond making a few perfunctory requests to return it.
Eh, the requirement to return your work-provided laptop is about as strong, legally speaking, as a requirement to pay back the value of it when you leave. Perhaps even stronger (because a work laptop is never really even a loan to you). I would suggest your workplace is a bit of an outlier: most places I'm aware of make pretty sure the laptop is returned, even if only because of the risk of company information leaking out otherwise (some places I know might let an employee keep an old laptop that's being replaced after they have wiped it, perhaps with all storage removed entirely).
Yeah, I've generally had to return laptops, unless the company itself is closing down (startups) or such (which I've been "fortunate" on, I once got to keep a nice iMac 27" and 27" Apple display, and then an M3 Max 96GB MBP). But usually monitors, other accessories are "you can keep those".
That's exactly how those things normally work.
"Education incentives" at companies can be similar.
For instance, maybe they pay for your trip to AWS Re:Invent and a couple of cert fees ($X,000.00) with the agreement you stay for a year or two. As long as you stay for the year or two, you don't own them any money. If you leave before then, they send you a prorated bill or take it out of your last paycheck.
The idea is that companies don't want to train you on their dime for you to use that training to immediately take a new job somewhere else (or worse, a competitor).
No, as others explained, it was “you owe us $X if you quit before $DATE.” IIRC, they had a few models to choose from, with different amounts of time required. The Pentium III was, I think, a 3 year commitment; a Celeron was I think 2 years.
Gateway was located in Sioux City, IA before they moved to South Dakota in 1990: https://medium.com/@madmedic11671/behind-the-spots-the-story...
Sioux City is near a tripoint where Iowa, South Dakota, and Nebraska located in the Missouri River floodplain so it is natural they would have operations in two states at some point in its history. I just drove through here and spent a weekend in the area, Ponca State Park (NE) is lovely!
I had forgotten about their start being in Iowa!
I moved to Nebraska (just outside Ponca, actually) in 1996, so I missed that part of their history. Moved away in 2004.
Agreed that Ponca State Park is delightful. I spent many a summer day there as a kid.
It is effectively the same city in three states, but most of it is in Iowa. Of course there are separate entities because it's in different states but if it weren't they would have all combined.
Let’s be clear: they were Lego-ing together parts from China. There were no mass produced PC components in the US by the 90s.
Probably not china so much as Taiwan, japan, other places
Actually yes China. Hong Kong specifically before the manufacturing boom moved to mainland. By the 90s Japan had lost its DRAM edge and was not making any PC peripherals en masse. TSMC was barely three years old in 1990.
TSMC wasn't the major player until relatively recently. SuperMicro, Foxconn, Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, etc. have existed for quite some time and are all Taiwanese.
Technically Hong Kong wasn't China back then.
Whether that nearly-over lease was enough to count or not, that lease ended partway through the time period we're talking about.
You over focus on Hong Kong. Lots of stuff was in Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Singapore, Malaysia. Many things had supply chains over many places.
In the UK a typical Gateway 2000 desktop PC came with a Trinitron screen, made by Sony in South Wales.
Their business model for the UK was the same tax scam as Apple, Dell and others. Everything was mail order, operating out of Dublin.
Their products had quality multimedia toys (CD, speakers, decent screen, keyboard with extra programmable keys) combined with decent CPU/RAM/ROM/graphics for the price.
I did support for a small company that bought Gateway (in the UK) and there certainly were no 'Made in USA' labels anywhere.
I really liked their machines and I bought one myself because it had that Trinitron screen at a bargain price. I was very happy with that machine. In the UK they went a bit sour after dropping the '2000' branding with the cow spots.
Their laptops were not as successful as their desktop machines, where they never quite managed to compete in either the 'value for money' or 'nice to have' sectors. Dell, Toshiba and even Compaq had preferable laptops.
Their success in the UK was the Dell model (Ireland tax fiddle), except they didn't make you wait weeks for your machine (like Dell did, with it having to be 'built to order').
> Their business model for the UK was the same tax scam as Apple, Dell and others. Everything was mail order, operating out of Dublin.
I think to this day Monster Cable (ugh) still operates a similar scam, where the US company licenses all their cable technology (also ugh) from Monster Cable Bermuda, which exists only in a small four story office building that is the legal HQ of 15,000+ companies.
> We got a Pentium III 550 MHz screamer
Super nice
The hippie copy mentioned was the ad my dad bought our first PC from. He was coming back from a business trip and asked the company computer guy to help him choose one for our family. We ended up with the 486DX2-50MHz "Integrated VESA System" [1].
Calling the Gateway 2000 customer support 800 number was my introduction to understanding computers and I am grateful to their staff for being patient with a 12 year old.
We got rid of it in the early aughts, but I kept the CPU all these years. Recently I found a similar Gateway slimline desktop (badged a 486DX2-66MHz) and have been using Claude to port things to DOS on it, like Cave Story [2][3]. The original 50MHz CPU still works.
1. https://books.google.com/books?id=L2RD68Gg2sMC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA...
2. https://github.com/ecliptik/doskutsu/
3. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YLFztifZKQ8
For a while in the 90's, I did Gateway 2000 tech support. It's nice to hear you had a good experience :) The mandate was to move quickly while also solving the customer's problem (which is harder than it sounds over the phone).
I was very young and I tried to upgrade the RAM on our gateway computer. I used the wrong type of RAM and fried (or broke) the motherboard. When I talked to gateway support, I think the person on the other end could tell what happened but took pity on me and allowed us to get a new motherboard under warranty. I had completely forgot that story until your comment here, thanks for the reminder on why I double check all the specs before rummaging around in there.
That's great they replaced it under warranty. I thought I broke the IDE connector once on the motherboard when re-connecting the cable because a pin was missing. The Gateway support rep calmed me down on the phone and that's how I learned about cable keying.
>Calling the Gateway 2000 customer support 800 number was my introduction to understanding computers and I am grateful to their staff for being patient with a 12 year old.
You had a better experience than I had. Bought a Gateway, the cheap hard disk in it went back within a few weeks. Took two calls to support (each putting me on hold for maybe 45 minutes) to get them to admit the hard disk was bad and each call was quite long I remember.
They sent out a raw hard disk and I had to install Windows and all the drivers by hand over the weekend because of course it is my fault they used the cheapest drives they could find.
I think they charged me for the new drive and said they would rebate it if they got the old drive back within a month. I think I was able to use the package they sent the replacement in to mail the disk back, but I had to pay the postage.
Good riddance to a bad company.
I had a similar experience in the plentiful 4 era but they were nice and gave me an hard drive and the reinstall cd. It was really nice of them, the computer was probably not in warranty or barely was with a few days or weeks left and they really were nice to teenage me. This was a 40gb seagate hdd and windows xp pre sp2 to date myself lol
For DOS, your choices are basically DJGPP C compiler, or using the HXDOS DOS extender. But how well would Cave Story work on 50MHz?
I've am working my way through benchmarking it on a few different CPUS [1]. A Pentium Overdrive 83MHz gets around 30fps, and the 486DX2-66MHz around 20fps. Because the 50MHz will use a bus speed to 25MHz I am expecting it to be 10-15fps.
Even with a lower frame rate gameplay is relatively smooth with having a fixed-timestamp mode [2].
The biggest difference in performance is the sound backend [3]. Gravis Ultrasound and Adlib for some reason halve the framerate on all cpus and it's the next challenge to point Claude at.
1. https://github.com/ecliptik/doskutsu/blob/main/docs/FPS-MATR...
2. https://github.com/ecliptik/doskutsu/tree/main#fixed-timeste...
3. https://github.com/ecliptik/doskutsu/blob/main/docs/SOUND.md
I worked at a mall Radio Shack in ‘98-‘99. A Gateway store opened up at the other end of the mall. This being the times they were, Radio Shack had partnered with Compaq to sell P2 & (I think) P3 desktops, the beginning of its downfall of selling other companies’ stuff and losing out to places like Best Buy.
We used to emphasize that you could buy a computer with us and go home with it today, whereas down the hall, you could buy it but it would come in the mail later. Their store had demos and the big cow-patterned boxes around, but no inventory.
Also around then, I applied for and got a Gateway-branded, Holstein-patterned credit card, which I promptly maxed out to buy my own first modern computer, a P2 build not from Gateway, but from Midwest Micro. I learned Red Hat Linux on it, reading the manual on break at work even before the computer came, and it began my real career.
So lots of adjacency to Gateway, but no real firsthand experience. They were definitely a force.
Before I worked at TSS doing in-home PC repair, I did a short stint at Radio Shack and got the Compaq experience you described. I remember going to the introduction event for the Compaq roll-out into Radio Shack stores, I was sitting in a large hotel ballroom with like 100 other Radio Shack sales folks. The Compaq guy was asking questions from the audience and I was literally the only person there who could answer questions like "what motherboard interface did the Pentium 2 use" (it was the first cpu to use a slot (Slot 1) versus a socket which was a big deal back then). I had dropped into the event straight after class at ITT, so I was just wearing casual attire and didn't think anything of it. Apparently that was a mistake, one of the higher up sales guys got offended and complained to my manager. I was offended that apparently no one else there knew anything technical at all, lol. Thankfully I left that job not long after.
I was spending all my time learning computers, and I was starting to build systems for family and friends. Once I was lent out to another Radio Shack store that was short handed and the other salesmen kinda lamented not being able to afford the Compaq a customer was buying. Afterwords, I tried to explain to him that I could easily build him a nicer system for a fraction of what we sold Compaq's for. He was still not interested, I think he was way more broke than I realized. I grew up broke too, but I also had my eyes set on improving my situation. Was kind of a wake-up-moment that most people around me had minimal ambition about this.
I also remember having to push cell phones at RS then too, I think we pushed a lot of Sprint phones. I was still fairly young and was just learning about phreaking, but I remember my boss telling people Sprint phones couldn't be cloned like analog cell phones could back then (I disagreed, but I had to agree it was harder at least). It was apparently a thing that your analog cell phone could be cloned over the air and suddenly your bill would be crazy that month. I only ever heard rumors about that kind of thing happening.
> I thhink he was way more broke than I realized. I grew up broke too, but I also had my eyes set on improving my situation. Was kind of a wake-up-moment that most people around me had minimal ambition about this.
I feel like I'm missing something, because it's not clear at all why that would be your takeaway. Why would "not trusting a temporary employee that I don't usually work with to allocate my home computer budget" somehow imply "broke and unwilling to do anything about it"? Without more detail, that seems like a kinda weird inference to make.
It was the sadness in his voice and the look in his eyes that aligned with his words. I certainly experienced plenty of skepticism directed at me based on my age in my youth, this was not that.
I worked at Best Buy and when the Gateway country store opened up they came in and offered most of our sales floor employees big raises and benefits.
Sadly I don't think the store stayed open much more than a year.
As a young Midwestern nerd in the 90s, getting one of those cow boxes delivered to our home was better than Christmas. (Christmas happens every year!). Somehow I can still remember the new computer smell…
I went from an unknown intel processor (pre-celeron) I think doing like ~75mhz and 2gb hard drive w/ 8mb ram to a gateway computer P4 w/ 1.3 or 1.4 GHZ, 40gb HD, and 128mb of ram - it was insane the jump. I do give credit to that old machine as I learned so much trying to optimize that processor to do things my friends were doing on their faster machines. Crazy times.
What exactly was "bad" about these ads? They're eye catching, and it definitely interested me as a reader.
Poor choice of title.
As an advertiser these are unusual but the clear strategy their marketing team took was to make their ads entertaining enough for people to want to read them.
Agreed. I remember those ads, and I kinda liked them. They had personality. The other PC ads were just tech specs - boring.
“These are the worst ads I’ve ever seen.”
“But you have seen them.”
These old Gateway ads made me remember ads a vendor ran in Computer Shopper featuring bikini-clad women. Their ads weren't as good as Gateway's, I guess, because I can't remember their name.
Agreed. They are good ads if we're still discussing them. This is one of those critics that assumes the current times are the 'correct taste' and anything foreign to their taste is poorly done, even when it resulted in sales.
Author here, from another issue I sent about my definition of bad ads for this newsletter:
"tl;dr While I do exaggerate the “badness” of 80s tech ads to make things more fun, a nostalgic ad is not the same thing as an effective ad. What we see in advertising today is so depressing because it is often so bland AND more effective than its more playful predecessors."
They are fun to look at now. And soooo much more creative than marketing crap from today. But they're still 12-page long marketing gimmicks. I'd still take them over today's ads any day of the week, and that's why I spend dozens of hours every month tracking them down and learning their stories
https://buttondown.com/suchbadtechads/archive/bad-ads-define...
I think there's "bad" in the sense that it didn't accomplish the goal of selling a product (maybe not the case here) and "bad" in the sense that it made many readers cringe or was seen as stupid/tacky. I'm seeing more of the latter in these ads.
Young people cringe too much. Personality is good. Why does everyone want to find themselves on a safe, but boring, ranking system?
(I know why. It’s way safer and we’re in dangerous times. Conservative personalities grow in times of pain. It still makes me sad.)
I tell young people that cringe is just a cage of the mind.
I was born in cringe. I grew up in cringe. I plan to be buried in a box made up of my cringe. All with a smile on my face.
Mid 90s I worked IT in aerospace. Had a pretty big facility and when I joined they were using Gateway PCs for everything (besides Mac and Unix workstations.)
I set up perhaps a hundred of them in those years and did RMAs etc. They were good machines for the time, was happy with support. Built my own Frankenstein from extra parts.
As GW tripped over itself a few times we gradually started moving to Dells. :-/
Not sure how bad the ads are if we're talking about them 30 years later.
Then again, it's not like they're 3dfx-level good:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35027437
I seem to remember computer ads in 90s had lots of rural and farming-related elements; I wonder if that was an attempt to appeal to the part of the population that probably had the least idea what a computer was. At that time I also recall some jokes about "the farmer in the Dell".
Another sizeable PC vendor, Midwest Micro (also traded under the name Systemax), was headquartered near the sub-1,000 population town of Fletcher, OH (out amidst farm fields). I can't say I remember their ads specifically, but I could see rural theming being a thing with them.
I still have my foam gateway cow!
I had a Customer who bought tons of Gateway PCs. They had a "pasture" cubicle full of foam cows. It was quite a sight.
A friend of mine had a Gateway PC at home (the first Pentium Pro I ever saw-- his stepfather splurged on it). The dog got ahold of the foam cow and tore a leg off, so my friend used markers to draw on "gore". I'll never forget the maimed Gateway cow.
I didn't have a Gateway 2000, but my friend did, and it came with an amazing keyboard with programmable macros. I was able to get one of those and used it for a few years, and never understood why such a thing wasn't more common.
That was the Gateway AnyKey keyboard:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_AnyKey
FWIW I love 90s ads, especially the video game ads. Electronic Gaming Monthly would bombard you with "extreme in your face 'tude" for even the most prosaic games. I loved the Gaiares ad, with a mulleted, chain wearing professional gamer Jamie Bunker saying "this game really smokes."
I loved their ads.
Every month, when I got my BYTE magazine in the mail, the first thing I would do was to find the Gateway 2000 ad, admire the cheezy graphics and copy, and then devour every detail of the specs of their high-end machine, tracking the increase in power and decrease in price. I bought several of their machines over the years.
I wrote a tweet a few months ago about how Gateway cow branding would crush it in 2026. those ads are amazing.
LTT did a very funny video on bad tech ads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXVeSJ1WAt0
I love that these ads had (cornball) personality.
ahh yes, the early 90s. computer shopper, datanet, pc magazine, a $59 seller's permit from the state of california that came with a magic number that would make distributors sell to you at cost for both computer and bike parts, automated touch tone fax back information systems, the absolute cheapest xt clone that could be assembled from parts from the computer shopper, ups cash on delivery, genie, prodigy, the bbs scene, the dreaded "rma number" and the subsequent wait, searching the space of physical card positions, jumper settings and tsr drivers that would allow the mouse, the soundcard and the game to all work at the same time, the borland compiler suite, mark williams coherent, os/2 2.0, trumpet winsock, slackware linux floppies...
not a bad time to be a kid.
Borrowed my mothers credit card to buy a modem and sound card from Surplus Software, it was like a miracle when an Airborne Express van showed up the next day with my goods.
These ads feel like a mental cleanse compared to ads now, which are focus grouped (and now AI polished) until there is nothing left but soulless gray goo, devoid of any personality whatsoever. Nice to see color again on the You Got It, Baby ad.
Related: https://www.printmag.com/design-trends/flat-logos-with-alex-...
This brings back memories. In my city, there were no computers for sale in regular stores in the early 90s. My first computer was a second-hand ZX Spectrum. I still remember how excited I was when I finally got one.
I had at least one Gateway 2000 desktop and several laptops over time. All but the last laptop were lovely machines. The last looked good on paper, but it was thicker and heavier than it should have been, and start losing keycaps fairly quickly.
Gateway 2000 (and subsequently Gateway) was one of my favorite of brands. It was like the Bikes Direct of PC brands - the components you care about on a frame that you don’t.
I think it was around the late 90s - but my hometown actually had a Gateway retail store where you could tinker with a lot of their products.
When they opened retail outlets it was the beginning of the end. That was the peak of their growth rate and the moment when Dell really started to go after them.
Honestly it's better to have bad but fun ads than those sterile corporate design used nowadays.
Hilariously good. Imo they worked on me. I can quote Gateway 4DX622 at $1899 OTOH of my head now. And it got me to read the whole thing.
4DX266 isn't it? I had that exact spec as a kid, still remember the big cow patterned boxes it came in
Written by geeks for geeks. Not the case today, the typical consumer market e.g. Apple is much bigger now.
As someone who is a student of advertising, I love this post. Just subscribed to this
These old ads are great, really takes me back to that era. In the mid to late 1990's I was a pimply faced youth in community college and picked up a part time job doing "PC repair". I couldn't put my finger on it, but the outfit carried itself like it was a major corporation despite being a small office, it was called TSS (Technology Service Solutions). The majority of the other guys were always working in the field so I wouldn't get to know them until many months later. When I got my first paycheck (physical paper), it said IBM on it. I asked my boss why this was and he nonchalantly said "we just use IBM's payroll system". I was very confused but didn't ask any further questions.
What I came to learn later was that TSS was IBM's PC service division which it had sold off to Kodak just a few years prior. I spent most of my time doing contracted in-home PC repair for all the major PC brands of the era, including Gateway. I'd get a service call (on a RIM bullfrog two-way pager), call the customer and tell them "Hi, I'm with <major brand computer>, give me directions to your house and I'll fix your system". Most of the consumer PC manufacturers were unequipped to provide any kind of in-field repair service on their products, so they hired TSS for this. If you bought any kind of extended warranty on your PC then you were paying for TSS to show up on-site at your home to fix it. Apparently this was better than regional central repair hubs.
Let me tell you, there were some seriously crazy stories from the front line. Most of our work was through Sears for Packard Bell (cheapest machines sell higher volume and therefore require the most service, not even counting for PB's lower quality). We serviced Acer, Sony Vaio, Gateway, Dell, and other brands, and did other point-of-sale and other contract work. I remember servicing the Gateway Destination system - that 35" CRT was huge for even a TV at that time. But being up close I realized it actually kinda sucked to use as a computer monitor. People tried to set them up in their living rooms, so imagine using your computer in the living room instead of an office, and required sitting next to the 35" display meant you saw the CRT up close which just meant the low resolution was blown up larger and you could see the physically larger pixels up close.
So yea, showing up to peoples houses meant going to a lot of random peoples houses which was mostly fine, but occasionally terrible. I had multiple instances of working on computers in a house having brownouts. "So wait, the computer reboots when the lights in the house flicker? And dispatch has sent me out with a new display for you... yea, you're gonna have to get the power company out here...". One time, I was sent to a house that was barely a shack in the woods. Main room had a light bulb hanging from the ceiling. That call in particular stands out in my mind, nice people, a 70 year skinny old dude in overalls and a 400' bearded lady in a shack. I couldn't do anything to make their Gatway machine work better as it was the power lines (lightbulb was visibly flickering the whole time I was there, that poor PC never stood a chance), so I showed her how to play her music CD's in PC (between power sags that crashed the machine) and she was tickled pink. One of my trainers had a couple horror stories: one dudes house was an underground bunker. My coworker was sent to replace a modem. After, the client couldn't find his Solitaire on his desktop, so he locked the door and demanded my coworker fix his Solitaire game before he could leave. My coworker obviously had nothing to do with that issue, but he recreated the shortcut to the desktop and was set free.
Eventually I jumped ship from TSS to IBM proper, it was a fun adventure. But that year and a half slinging in-home service calls in the evenings was an interesting time.
The cow-print branding was a masterclass in building an approachable identity for a commodity business, but these specific spreads really highlight how weird 90s tech marketing was. I'd forgotten they tried to lean so hard into the 'cowboy' persona for a PC builder. It's wild to see how much margin they must have had to afford these multi-page glossy inserts in every issue of PC Magazine.
It wasn't just PC Magazine, it was every PC magazine.
They must have negotiated some hefty discounts, because page rates were astronomical.
Even so - the incredible thing about PC magazines was that they were read by people who wanted to buy PCs, so the ROI on that kind of niche targeted ad spend was always worthy.