I love StarCraft. I started playing it right from the beginning, most of my friends right now are from that era. I literally met people that have spread to almost every continent when I was in my early teens. We played at internet cafes and did not have access to the internet, that was priced differently...
I miss those days so much.
Everybody was from a different background back then, and nobody was anything other than a guy that plays StaCraft at the cybercafe... And now, we are in our 40's and I know Math teachers, history teachers, oil rig operators, software programmers, professional gamers, lawyers and more... hahah So crazy to think about it... and I know them, we talk, what a world.
Even at Burning Man, in the middle of the desert, there is a camp that hosts a StarCraft tournament every year (on the dustiest setups you've ever seen!) :)
My first time playing StarCraft was at summer camp around a decade after it came out.
All the smartest people played it so I wanted to too. Great decision, I have been continually impressed with the people who StarCraft introduced me to.
I think we're on the early days of games you connect with your agent to. Human + AI units one versus the other. Like knights with their horses. Not sure which is the horse..
A friend of mine created GoBench[1][2] that evaluates LLMs on 9×9 Go using KataGo opponents as Elo anchors, you see real capability differences there, like Astra Max substantially leading all other models. I think strategy is a generally interesting area to evaluate LLMs on
Did it play by looking at screenshots and sending clicks, or was there other mediation/symbolization?
It sounds like it might have been actually played in real time, which would be very important to distinguish.
I have recently seen other harnesses letting agents play real-time games in what seems like discrete time slices, turning eg Portal into something turn-based https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruuGXFAmiOE
Any details about the harness the agents were given? I am curious what representation of the screen and world state was provided to the agents and what tools they had available.
Oh sorry I should be more clear on that. Will add to report.
For agent harness I did Claude Code, Codex, Grok Build. This was primarily a cost driven decision — I have a lot of free tokens and I didn't want to pay API prices for this.
For game harness I used minimal BW-API issue command and get observation apis as tools. I felt this was the most fair way to do it on my small scale.
In the future I would like to integrate code mode and multiple games/I think if it was a best of 5 where each agent could learn from its past games and build its own automations over time that would be much more interesting.
Somewhat related: In 2018, Google DeepMind had already created AIs that were capable of beating professional gamers in StarCraft 2 (the sequel to Brood War): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs
Starcraft is APM-dependent. Unless the latency will improve greatly in frontier reasoning LLMs (which is unlikely), it will remain a bit like excavator knitting.
Would be interesting if you could team a fast and slow agent together -- slow model can either act directly or maybe just communicate to the fast model.
This is a great idea for a benchmark. Something all the benchmarks seem to be missing is strategy, tactical solutions in most of the benchmarks are all thats required but here requires actual long term thinking and tactical thinking, balancing and orchestration.
A ton of conversations about the game must be in the training set. I wonder, is there any way just from watching how they play, of telling if they tend to pick strategies that people complain or meme about online?
Unrelated to the benchmark...
I love StarCraft. I started playing it right from the beginning, most of my friends right now are from that era. I literally met people that have spread to almost every continent when I was in my early teens. We played at internet cafes and did not have access to the internet, that was priced differently...
I miss those days so much.
Everybody was from a different background back then, and nobody was anything other than a guy that plays StaCraft at the cybercafe... And now, we are in our 40's and I know Math teachers, history teachers, oil rig operators, software programmers, professional gamers, lawyers and more... hahah So crazy to think about it... and I know them, we talk, what a world.
Even at Burning Man, in the middle of the desert, there is a camp that hosts a StarCraft tournament every year (on the dustiest setups you've ever seen!) :)
So ... Zerging Man?
So dope
I agree.
My first time playing StarCraft was at summer camp around a decade after it came out.
All the smartest people played it so I wanted to too. Great decision, I have been continually impressed with the people who StarCraft introduced me to.
My best greetings to all Starcraft Elders clanners of yesteryear :).
Later we even listened to Eminem and played violent video games. Most of have never even been charged with a crime, much less abused someone.
I think we're on the early days of games you connect with your agent to. Human + AI units one versus the other. Like knights with their horses. Not sure which is the horse..
A friend of mine created GoBench[1][2] that evaluates LLMs on 9×9 Go using KataGo opponents as Elo anchors, you see real capability differences there, like Astra Max substantially leading all other models. I think strategy is a generally interesting area to evaluate LLMs on
[1] https://rolandgao.com/blog/gobench/
[2] https://rolandgao.com/gobench.pdf
There is currently a bot beating everyone on the ladder. Just watched it today on Artosiscasts yt channel.
If you want to see human written bots in action or compete in the bot ladder yourself, try https://aiarena.net/
Did it play by looking at screenshots and sending clicks, or was there other mediation/symbolization?
It sounds like it might have been actually played in real time, which would be very important to distinguish.
I have recently seen other harnesses letting agents play real-time games in what seems like discrete time slices, turning eg Portal into something turn-based https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruuGXFAmiOE
There's a bot data stream already; it's probably hooked up to that rather than screencap. Yes, I believe these were playing in real time.
Any details about the harness the agents were given? I am curious what representation of the screen and world state was provided to the agents and what tools they had available.
Oh sorry I should be more clear on that. Will add to report.
For agent harness I did Claude Code, Codex, Grok Build. This was primarily a cost driven decision — I have a lot of free tokens and I didn't want to pay API prices for this.
For game harness I used minimal BW-API issue command and get observation apis as tools. I felt this was the most fair way to do it on my small scale.
In the future I would like to integrate code mode and multiple games/I think if it was a best of 5 where each agent could learn from its past games and build its own automations over time that would be much more interesting.
Somewhat related: In 2018, Google DeepMind had already created AIs that were capable of beating professional gamers in StarCraft 2 (the sequel to Brood War): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs
I predict LLMs will reach superhuman level and beat even that model in the next 12 months
Starcraft is APM-dependent. Unless the latency will improve greatly in frontier reasoning LLMs (which is unlikely), it will remain a bit like excavator knitting.
I predict latency will improve greatly in the next 12 months to more than 4x speed on current frontier tasks
Yeah but Starcraft needs, like, 10-20x the APM these agents are doing.
I’m not convinced a lot of it can’t be solved with code mode.
Marine staggering for example seems like an ideal code mode task.
Would be interesting if you could team a fast and slow agent together -- slow model can either act directly or maybe just communicate to the fast model.
I might open this up to a tournament if enough people want. Any interest?
This is a great idea for a benchmark. Something all the benchmarks seem to be missing is strategy, tactical solutions in most of the benchmarks are all thats required but here requires actual long term thinking and tactical thinking, balancing and orchestration.
That’s why I tried making https://wrathbench.shard.page
A ton of conversations about the game must be in the training set. I wonder, is there any way just from watching how they play, of telling if they tend to pick strategies that people complain or meme about online?
I wonder if there is a library to decipher brood war replay files. Perhaps an agent could learn by watching.
Not hard to build. I was shocked at how fast/easy this was to pull together.
I haven’t checked for SC:BW but Blizzard has official parsers/replayers for SC2 on GitHub.
+ Playable Agent driven Starcraft
Dibs on the fly brain