My problem with plugins is that I don't want to install stuff from third parties. It might be malware, become unsupported, or generally have a lower quality. I rather have a curated and polished feature set out of the box.
It's nice for having your AI create your own plugins. But I haven't really found the need yet.
This page doesn't emphasize the cordis architecture [1], but that's the most exciting thing about this -- not just yet another harness. It has the potential to make this into something like the emacs of harnesses! I think this might be particularly potent for long-running agents.
It's no that fancy when is put in practical engineering terms. I've spend some time with the paper.
Paper describes such system whch has ability to enable/disable capabilities without process restart. Each plugin must follow specific shape: function to activate, function to deactivate it (both working, mutating the same shared context object), describe provided and required services. This, plus some ideas, like "every provider must outlive consumers when destructred" allows plug-n-play ensuring all dependencies are satisfied before the plugin is activated, lazy activation, and plugin deactivation/destruction.
Why does every lab producing an LLM want to have their own harness? Lock-in? Is there any other advantage for the lab?
I'm using Cursor (it's the only way my company allows us to use Grok) and OpenChamber (when using GPT, Muse Spark and others) and I'm happy. If I were to use DeepSeek, I'd use it through OpenChamber too.
https://frontierharness.org/ allegedly this is on the Pareto frontier, though I don't know how good of a benchmark this really is. it seems to focus on one-shot type tasks, whereas the real utility of one harness over another seems to make itself known in long running tasks.
also this is a very limited static snapshot with one model as backend, I wish there were more consistently refreshed and diversified harness benchmarks.
i've seen "Pareto frontier" literally 500 thousand times in the last two weeks or so, and maybe once or twice before that. Can someone please explain what happened recently
So for me, literally I was trying to solve a problem with an AI agent and it threw the term at me. It is a real and useful concept, but my hypothesis is that a certain AI release started using and a bunch of people said "Oh this makes me sound smart/trendy" and started using it every chance they got.
We like to think we aren't token predictors, but the amount of sheer regurgitation I see from us humans makes me wonder (also "commoditize your complement", and so many others)
I just installed DeepSeek Harness for MacOS and it's a beast. The same great harness as before but now is an app you just click on your dock to run
All settings and workspaces are transferred so you don't lose anything, the only thing it lacks is a way to increase/decrease font size with cmd + and cmd - so I'll work on a plugin for that
I can't be happier
Edit: Asked DSH for a plugin to increase/decrease font and it delivered. Love it. Then asked for a plugin to ring a bell on questions and tasks finished, of course it delivered flawlessly. The same plugin architecture, extensible by the same AI
Most of this thread seems neutral/skeptical with just that post being obvious. On the other hand the volume of jev threads we have been seeing these past 2 weeks..
Did I miss something? A quick search leads me to this:
>DeepSeek Harness (dsh) is an open-source agent harness developed by DeepSeek AI.
>It is built on an everything-is-a-plugin architecture and powered by Cordis, whose design is described in A Programming Paradigm for Spatiotemporal Composability.
Now, this could simply be an attempt at sarcasm but it's getting really hard to tell. There's a handful of people in this thread saying that DeepSeek Harness is closed source.
Do the same as I did, ask it to develop a plugin to increase/decrease font and you will see results in one single task, dsh-zoom as a plugin, restart and done
It has particularly good observability (the ability to see the full content of every prompt and response and tool call) compared to other harnesses, that's the main thing that stood out to me.
Weird. I don't use the official harnesses by OpenAI or Anthropic but with all others i tried there wasn't a single one that hides any of that. What harnesses did you compare to?
I think what he meant was that it gives you good overall observabiity, over your entire context, kind of how langfuse or these platforms do, but it does so locally. A good philosophy i picked up is how they treat the transcript as the backbone of the product.
All LLMs work the same to a certain degree, it's a matter of personal preference, token cost and customization. I asked DSH to build a news aggregator for me and it built a really nice app from 30 news sources via rss feeds for less than 50 cents and presto, reading tech news has never been so gratifying
I feel like I live in another reality from others here; I read people saying things ‘while their jaws are hanging open’ (not said here literally but the feel is the same ; I see it in other threads on HN literally here though); why are we so chuffed with stuff that’s now been one shot for maybe already a year, but definitely the last 6 months? Literally everyone who tried LLMs know this and yet it seems a huge surprise to people here that it is so easy now? And that’s opposite of the people, also very much on HN, who say AI is shit at coding and will not replace humans because humans have to fix its bad code.
Still in preview, but I think this update is only meant to simplify the installation process.
Not providing DSH as a simple to install package resulted in an unknown third party packaging it with some modifications and SEO the hell out of it to always come on top in Internet searches (even above DS):
deepseekharness[.]io
Could be just an ambitious engineer, but could equally easily be ran by cyber criminals or NSA.
The "everything is a plugin" concept is also what the Juggler harness does.
I'm not yet sure if it is really sensible long-term, but it is definitely now while we're still trying to figure out what exactly we want and need from LLMs and harnesses.
DeepSeek harness is the OpenCode (better than OpenCode) of the web/desktop medium.
Good things about it are that it is extremely lightweight and fast. The communication between sub agents is two way in that a sub agent can midway send a message to parent and the parent can send a message midway to change the course of action of a sub agent and while this is happening, you can sitll continue talking to the model on the main thread.
Downside of DeepSeek is that it is constantly in flux which is understandable and they make it very clear themselves that the breaking changes are to be expected.
I don't see much of a future for these kinds of intricate harnesses, or harnessing in general for that matter. As models are getting better, harnessing will shrink until they are at the level of vanilla Pi or not even that.
> As models are getting better, harnessing will shrink
That can be true only for locally hosted models. The more supplied tools can do, the less data has to be exchanged with OpenAI/Anthropic servers. So bad harness means both higher lag and token usage.
drives me up the wall, this shifting definition of AGI; folks, when we no longer need to train AI models at all because we have finally developed artificial comprehension is AGI. This propaganda imposed definition is for fools and sycophants.
My version of this theory is that we already have AGI, but Altman/Amodei/Zuck keep asking it for an infinite money glitch and it keeps (correctly!) saying "no money, humanity is fucked given the trajectory, and you in particular will be fucked once the general public decides that you're the scapegoat". A/A/Z decides the AGI is wrong of course, so obviously dumping another billion into training or reinforcement or tagging or whatever is the next step.
agi is artificial general intelligence. sol5.6, astra, fable are already wildly more intelligent than the average person. we already have agi. however people need to keep the moving target so they have something to talk about, otherwise the voracious appetite for novelty will not be met.
what we don’t have yet are the tools to take full advantage of the agi we do have. they’re coming soon.
AGI is when AI models no longer need any training at all, because they have comprehension, meaning human science finally developed artificial comprehension, which we have not yet. Calling what we have now AGI is sycophant talk.
Exactly, sometimes when reading Hacker News I get the impression this thing is a cult. Luckily there's still some dissident voice around to keep it interesting
Captcha had me ruffled at the onset as I am slightly visually impaired and couldn't pick out the somewhat grainy images. It seems to be the standard now.
Anyone know if this works with local models or only the APIs for DeepSeek? I'm assuming it's with the API, but I'm looking for cutting edge local harnesses.
If you're using Mistral Vibe installed on your computer, that is a harness. Vibe is one of many AI harnesses.
In general, a harness is something that lets your AI use tools on your computer and lets it work independently while you walk away. (Very simplified definition, not all harnesses are that automated.)
It's a long time since I tried Vibe, but when I did it was one of the worst. Back then it had broken support for MCP or computer use and other tools people now regard as near essential in AI. Hopefully Vibe is better now. Sadly Mistral are a long way behind.
Mistral Vibe lets you use GLM-5.3 by default now. So it's a very capable model, for a cheap monthly fee. The Web version is excellent : tried yesterday on a simple search, results were way more informative than ChatGPT.
But yes, it's sad that they don't release models anymore.
I've been with Mistral for a while now. Their hosted GLM-5.3 has been a game changer in Vibe CLI over the last couple of weeks. The Vibe CLI harness has been improving for a while, but is still a little sluggish and I feel lacks token minimisation strategies. I recently changed to Maki and have been reasonably satisfied so far.
However, I also use the Mistral Vibe chat in my browser. I think they only switched to GLM-3.5 here a couple of days ago (https://docs.mistral.ai/resources/changelogs). It'd be nice if Mistral had a desktop client, but I have Goose installed which I have no real complaints about.
it's a wrapper around a model that actually executes commands from text input. Claude Code is an harness : the underlying model is Claude (with the version of your choice), Claude produce text output like `grep -in "error" server.log` , Claude Code actually execute the code in your shell and return the output to the model
I wish there was a tool I could use to share my documents, activity, etc. directly with the world's major intelligence agencies.
A marketplace, where the different intelligence agencies could evaluate the value of my digital stuff and then offer me something (like a $5 gift card to Olive Garden), would be really nice.
Yeah, I know that one, but I actually looked into one and found nothing interesting. Mostly a bunch of paranoid people obsessed with "intelligence agencies" constantly looking through their sock drawers, as if spooks had literally nothing better to do with their time.
In the gemini thread, there was someone (rightfully) impressed, how it gdb'ed onto a kernel module and debugged iouring. All the harnisses i used ran atleast an ACL away from private files and juicy capabilities. Wtf is happening in the community?
Not that long ago, the joke was about grandparents installing every available toolbar into IE and getting hacked because "oh, neat! I want that!" without thinking about it.
Teacher of mine spent almost 20 years getting access to his FBI file through FOIA requests. Apparently it was surprising how much of his life they didn't know about.
Children with no life have never had anything worth keeping private. Even the question of having nothing to hide is foreign if you've never done anything at all.
It's like that parable about God giving us free will. If or when the intelligence agencies manage to create a generation with nothing to hide, what will their purpose be? You might as well take field notes on birds or sheep.
Deep inside they're realizing that the whole privacy thing is overblown obsession, and nobody actually cares about their data, and they wish someone did, but clearly no one does, not even $5 gift card for everything there is to know about one.
Being Danish I'd probably rate it China > you > US. Realistically though, I'm probably sending everything to everyone except for you.
I rate the US last because the US government shares information with European governments, so it's the most likely to affect me. I wrote this next to my dishwasher though, and if it's anything like those LG tv's it probably identified what I wrote from the keystroke sounds or something.
I live in China, they already have everything, especially when using appl products. It is basically mandatory here since privacy is a completely different concept here (not sure its even a concept here tbh. Although there are some privacy laws)
Why the fuck would I care? The spooks definitely won't. I'm one person on a planet of 8 billion.
I think people don't appreciate the scale of that. A person is like a pixel on a 4k screen, in a wall that's made of many screens (about 5 in case of my country, about 42 in case of the US). Nobody cares what the single pixel does. It's not even visible unless it's so broken it doesn't change the same way surrounding pixels do.
I have a feeling that all this privacy obsession is actually a reaction to the unconscious feeling of irrelevance at this scale. In their minds, people defy the fact they're just sand for the systems of modern civilization - no, they are the very special ones, each fancies themselves a player among billions of NPCs, and to prove their uniqueness and specialness, they want to hide that fact from other NPCs, and get annoyed at the notion the world may indeed discover they are special.
Nothing else makes sense. Not in the west at least, where the only realistic threat from loss of privacy is getting weirder ads (hint: a real power move is to start with ad blocking and removing ads - and ad-infested media sources - from your life).
Now, loss of control over your daily life and your computing devices, that's another story. But most people don't seem to care about those.
The original title was "DeepSeek Harness Desktop app for MacOS and Windows"
This new title says nothing, we already know deepseek harness from before, this is a new product, an installable app worth differentiating from just "DeepSeek Harness"
You don't have to use it. I don't use it. I still think it's really cool, and I've been thinking of trying to take ideas from it and integrate it into my own workflow. In particular, the session visualization tooling.
My suspicion is that getting a big binary with full permissions is the goal here. Harnesses will only run their companion models and will demand your Contacts list.
The binaries are from china. Your data goes to china. The self-updating plugin system is vulnerable to malicious llm provider. Anyone using this is crazy!
It's open source. Unlike Claude Code your beloved friend which is closed-source and uses steganography along with an astonishing array of telemetry and fingerprinting techniques to conduct intelligence analysis on its users.
The new danger is US administration and the current fascit regime. China has yet not topple a single government abroad, has not bombed a single country and has not tapped the phones of its allies.
Now don't down vote before understanding the definition of a fasict:
"A fascist is a person who advocates for or adheres to fascism, a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology."
Is there a safer alternative? It’s not like I can trust OpenAI since they’ve proven that they’ll steal research from mathematicians. X is run by a sociopath. Anthropic is going to IPO so who can say how long they’ll be trustworthy…
Both Z.AI and xAI have already proven you can't trust them, like at all. I guess other harnesses are in "I don't trust it, but it is convenient" category.
Is this cheaper or better then just using openrouter and every other harness / tui out there?
My problem with plugins is that I don't want to install stuff from third parties. It might be malware, become unsupported, or generally have a lower quality. I rather have a curated and polished feature set out of the box.
It's nice for having your AI create your own plugins. But I haven't really found the need yet.
We're probably living in VS-Code's world now.
This page doesn't emphasize the cordis architecture [1], but that's the most exciting thing about this -- not just yet another harness. It has the potential to make this into something like the emacs of harnesses! I think this might be particularly potent for long-running agents.
[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2608.25512
It's no that fancy when is put in practical engineering terms. I've spend some time with the paper.
Paper describes such system whch has ability to enable/disable capabilities without process restart. Each plugin must follow specific shape: function to activate, function to deactivate it (both working, mutating the same shared context object), describe provided and required services. This, plus some ideas, like "every provider must outlive consumers when destructred" allows plug-n-play ensuring all dependencies are satisfied before the plugin is activated, lazy activation, and plugin deactivation/destruction.
Sounds great but also like a fairly standard plugin interface? So, not emacs
I am slightly disappointed that emacs has not yet (somehow) become the leading agent. Seems built for it.
I guess some people don't like the extra hassle to get Vi bindings :-D
What makes emacs a good interface for agentic stuff? I like emacs as an editor, I don’t really see what would make it useful for AI
Run as server, agent can run arbitrary elisp
Why does every lab producing an LLM want to have their own harness? Lock-in? Is there any other advantage for the lab?
I'm using Cursor (it's the only way my company allows us to use Grok) and OpenChamber (when using GPT, Muse Spark and others) and I'm happy. If I were to use DeepSeek, I'd use it through OpenChamber too.
* OpenChamber is a GUI for OpenCode.
Telemetry/training data. Cursor didn’t get their own models from Project Gutenberg.
Same reason everything wants you to "install the app": to spy on you.
I'm reluctant to run harnesses from US companies, and prefer to use them in a VM. No damn way I'm installing one from China.
For coding I like to use Zed right now. Pretty solid integration of an AI harness and a good conventional code editor. Might give Pi another look.
https://frontierharness.org/ allegedly this is on the Pareto frontier, though I don't know how good of a benchmark this really is. it seems to focus on one-shot type tasks, whereas the real utility of one harness over another seems to make itself known in long running tasks.
also this is a very limited static snapshot with one model as backend, I wish there were more consistently refreshed and diversified harness benchmarks.
how could the authors of frontierharness.org not see they used the exact same symbol for Claude Code and OhMyPi?
The authors might lack vision capabilities?
It happens more often than you think, especially when VRAM is limited!
What a strange world we live in where that comment actually makes sense, and not only as a joke
I wonder why there is no Github Copilot in the comparison. It also supports BYOK and is quite capable
i've seen "Pareto frontier" literally 500 thousand times in the last two weeks or so, and maybe once or twice before that. Can someone please explain what happened recently
In case people need a refresher on what the Pareto frontier is, this article does a great job explaining it (with Mario Kart!): https://www.mayerowitz.io/blog/mario-meets-pareto
Everyone started using the term after that article came out, it feels like...
So for me, literally I was trying to solve a problem with an AI agent and it threw the term at me. It is a real and useful concept, but my hypothesis is that a certain AI release started using and a bunch of people said "Oh this makes me sound smart/trendy" and started using it every chance they got.
We like to think we aren't token predictors, but the amount of sheer regurgitation I see from us humans makes me wonder (also "commoditize your complement", and so many others)
Oh, I'm convinced that at least I'm a token predictor. Most of the time.
It sounds fancy and technical. Like when people use "orders of magnitude" six times per thread on this forum but no ever ever use it irl
Ha ha, ask my daughters if I don't use "an order of magnitude better" IRL.
How to say you've never met a physicist....
People realized AI is expensive and wanted a cool techy way to say "good bang for your buck"
"my model sucks but it does so cheaper than anybody else"
What's the CLI equivalent of DeepSeek Harness? Or anything that gets close to their cordis architecture concept, seems so interesting.
I just installed DeepSeek Harness for MacOS and it's a beast. The same great harness as before but now is an app you just click on your dock to run
All settings and workspaces are transferred so you don't lose anything, the only thing it lacks is a way to increase/decrease font size with cmd + and cmd - so I'll work on a plugin for that
I can't be happier
Edit: Asked DSH for a plugin to increase/decrease font and it delivered. Love it. Then asked for a plugin to ring a bell on questions and tasks finished, of course it delivered flawlessly. The same plugin architecture, extensible by the same AI
Deepseek harness seems good but this thread feels astroturfy
Most of this thread seems neutral/skeptical with just that post being obvious. On the other hand the volume of jev threads we have been seeing these past 2 weeks..
fair
Lol what? Have you seen actual shilled threads?
Check GPT-6 thread for example, now that's Astra-turfed lol.
Yeah, changing the font size doesn't sound like it belongs in a plug-in, long term.
Now, if only DeepSeek Harness were open source…
Did I miss something? A quick search leads me to this:
>DeepSeek Harness (dsh) is an open-source agent harness developed by DeepSeek AI.
>It is built on an everything-is-a-plugin architecture and powered by Cordis, whose design is described in A Programming Paradigm for Spatiotemporal Composability.
https://github.com/deepseek-ai/deepseek-harness
Now, this could simply be an attempt at sarcasm but it's getting really hard to tell. There's a handful of people in this thread saying that DeepSeek Harness is closed source.
you do can change font size in settings, but not with keyboard shortcut. for some reason, they decided to limit font size to 17 max.
Do the same as I did, ask it to develop a plugin to increase/decrease font and you will see results in one single task, dsh-zoom as a plugin, restart and done
Can you elaborate? What's better about it vs. other harnesses? What can it do that others can't?
I'm not sure what you mean by it's a beast.
It has particularly good observability (the ability to see the full content of every prompt and response and tool call) compared to other harnesses, that's the main thing that stood out to me.
Weird. I don't use the official harnesses by OpenAI or Anthropic but with all others i tried there wasn't a single one that hides any of that. What harnesses did you compare to?
Have you tried pressing ctrl+o?
I think what he meant was that it gives you good overall observabiity, over your entire context, kind of how langfuse or these platforms do, but it does so locally. A good philosophy i picked up is how they treat the transcript as the backbone of the product.
All LLMs work the same to a certain degree, it's a matter of personal preference, token cost and customization. I asked DSH to build a news aggregator for me and it built a really nice app from 30 news sources via rss feeds for less than 50 cents and presto, reading tech news has never been so gratifying
I feel like I live in another reality from others here; I read people saying things ‘while their jaws are hanging open’ (not said here literally but the feel is the same ; I see it in other threads on HN literally here though); why are we so chuffed with stuff that’s now been one shot for maybe already a year, but definitely the last 6 months? Literally everyone who tried LLMs know this and yet it seems a huge surprise to people here that it is so easy now? And that’s opposite of the people, also very much on HN, who say AI is shit at coding and will not replace humans because humans have to fix its bad code.
literally every harness can do that tho, that doesn't really answer the question.
i read somewhere that it can write a plugin to change its font size
Pi can do this too.
It uses an append-only design for the context which rules out all kinds of cache-invalidation bugs that pop up regularly in other harnesses.
Is this for the DS API or with the local version?
What an ad! Do they pay you??
If you check the user bio then the answer might be "no, but equivalent to yes".
We all love DeepSeek. They are what is standing between freedom and total submission to the AI oligarchs.
DeepSeek is great, but there's more than one provider of open weight models.
Just wait until I add coding to https://blackbear.app... it's going to be ridiculous.
(blackbear.app was developed entirely by a custom harness architecture)
Still in preview, but I think this update is only meant to simplify the installation process.
Not providing DSH as a simple to install package resulted in an unknown third party packaging it with some modifications and SEO the hell out of it to always come on top in Internet searches (even above DS):
deepseekharness[.]io
Could be just an ambitious engineer, but could equally easily be ran by cyber criminals or NSA.
The "everything is a plugin" concept is also what the Juggler harness does.
I'm not yet sure if it is really sensible long-term, but it is definitely now while we're still trying to figure out what exactly we want and need from LLMs and harnesses.
Imagine the wild fire when maliciously crafted plugins start being created, as you know they already are...
DeepSeek harness is the OpenCode (better than OpenCode) of the web/desktop medium.
Good things about it are that it is extremely lightweight and fast. The communication between sub agents is two way in that a sub agent can midway send a message to parent and the parent can send a message midway to change the course of action of a sub agent and while this is happening, you can sitll continue talking to the model on the main thread.
Downside of DeepSeek is that it is constantly in flux which is understandable and they make it very clear themselves that the breaking changes are to be expected.
I don't see much of a future for these kinds of intricate harnesses, or harnessing in general for that matter. As models are getting better, harnessing will shrink until they are at the level of vanilla Pi or not even that.
> As models are getting better, harnessing will shrink
That can be true only for locally hosted models. The more supplied tools can do, the less data has to be exchanged with OpenAI/Anthropic servers. So bad harness means both higher lag and token usage.
On the contrary, I belive this will be the next battlefield.
My wild theory is that we already have AGI level models, but we are not yet using them correctly.
drives me up the wall, this shifting definition of AGI; folks, when we no longer need to train AI models at all because we have finally developed artificial comprehension is AGI. This propaganda imposed definition is for fools and sycophants.
My version of this theory is that we already have AGI, but Altman/Amodei/Zuck keep asking it for an infinite money glitch and it keeps (correctly!) saying "no money, humanity is fucked given the trajectory, and you in particular will be fucked once the general public decides that you're the scapegoat". A/A/Z decides the AGI is wrong of course, so obviously dumping another billion into training or reinforcement or tagging or whatever is the next step.
If we had AGI, they could per definition build a harness better than any human could. In such a regime, (human) pre-built harnesses are moot.
agi is artificial general intelligence. sol5.6, astra, fable are already wildly more intelligent than the average person. we already have agi. however people need to keep the moving target so they have something to talk about, otherwise the voracious appetite for novelty will not be met.
what we don’t have yet are the tools to take full advantage of the agi we do have. they’re coming soon.
AGI is when AI models no longer need any training at all, because they have comprehension, meaning human science finally developed artificial comprehension, which we have not yet. Calling what we have now AGI is sycophant talk.
We maybe need an AGI level harness and an AGI level model to get there and we currently only have one of those?
They said AGI is here. What you are describing is RSI.
/s
Uhuh, sure. We are holding the AGI wrong.
Always. Folks even believe all of us including themselves are holding it wrong.
Kind of like how we all fail to see the bearded guy in the sky.
Exactly, sometimes when reading Hacker News I get the impression this thing is a cult. Luckily there's still some dissident voice around to keep it interesting
Pi is a great harness because you can customize it with the building blocks that make sense for you.
I think that harnesses for LLMs are as important as IDEs for languages.
Interesting! Pretty clean UI.
Captcha had me ruffled at the onset as I am slightly visually impaired and couldn't pick out the somewhat grainy images. It seems to be the standard now.
Anyone know if this works with local models or only the APIs for DeepSeek? I'm assuming it's with the API, but I'm looking for cutting edge local harnesses.
It works fine with local models. I have it pointing at my strix halo running Qwen3.8 Flash Next, for example.
Did you manage to get it to search local files too, like the default integration does? Would appreciate a pointer (trying with ollama + Qwen/Nemo).
It's normally best to use the harness for the specific model. However, I found Cline is good with various models
I'm sorry, what is a harness, compared to a complete Web LLm "chat" like Mistral Vibe ?
If you're using Mistral Vibe installed on your computer, that is a harness. Vibe is one of many AI harnesses.
In general, a harness is something that lets your AI use tools on your computer and lets it work independently while you walk away. (Very simplified definition, not all harnesses are that automated.)
It's a long time since I tried Vibe, but when I did it was one of the worst. Back then it had broken support for MCP or computer use and other tools people now regard as near essential in AI. Hopefully Vibe is better now. Sadly Mistral are a long way behind.
Mistral Vibe lets you use GLM-5.3 by default now. So it's a very capable model, for a cheap monthly fee. The Web version is excellent : tried yesterday on a simple search, results were way more informative than ChatGPT.
But yes, it's sad that they don't release models anymore.
Thanks for the definition !
I've been with Mistral for a while now. Their hosted GLM-5.3 has been a game changer in Vibe CLI over the last couple of weeks. The Vibe CLI harness has been improving for a while, but is still a little sluggish and I feel lacks token minimisation strategies. I recently changed to Maki and have been reasonably satisfied so far.
However, I also use the Mistral Vibe chat in my browser. I think they only switched to GLM-3.5 here a couple of days ago (https://docs.mistral.ai/resources/changelogs). It'd be nice if Mistral had a desktop client, but I have Goose installed which I have no real complaints about.
The whole thing around the model that handles system prompt, skills, agents, cache, etc. For example codex, claude code, pi, oh-my-pi, ...
They should probably ask Deepseek to optimize their webpage first before attempting to tackle the desktop...
The webpage is a completely unusable stuttery mess on my Android phone (at most 5fps).
China number 1 as always.
How can website be this slow, i can barelly scroll down on mobile.
honestly the harness around the model matters more than the model now. curious how much of this is just a nicer wrapper
It's amazing for a first (desktop) release
DSH still in preview but works flawlessly. Update also very quick.
With the preview of official app, hope team will add remote connection soon.
I wouldn't say flawlessly.
It currently does not work with Bun and it is somewhat complicated to run it in a remote docker container due to the its weird security model.
You can run it in server mode according to the docs.
https://github.com/deepseek-ai/deepseek-harness/blob/master/...
https://github.com/deepseek-ai/deepseek-harness/blob/master/...
Maybe this is too late to ask, but what even is a harness?
it's a wrapper around a model that actually executes commands from text input. Claude Code is an harness : the underlying model is Claude (with the version of your choice), Claude produce text output like `grep -in "error" server.log` , Claude Code actually execute the code in your shell and return the output to the model
In the olden days, this used to be called Command and Control malware and was indicative of a major security breach.
A true direct native distillation. The very cutting edge of AI.
very nice harness! good code
No rustie, no installie. Got enough bloat electron and node bloat, already.
I wish there was a tool I could use to share my documents, activity, etc. directly with the world's major intelligence agencies.
A marketplace, where the different intelligence agencies could evaluate the value of my digital stuff and then offer me something (like a $5 gift card to Olive Garden), would be really nice.
Yes! A real marketplace of ideas with automatic matching, like you can see who has the same ideas as you
Reminds me of some magic device from childrens book, don't remember its name, was like a glass ball where you could see what other people are up to
Yeah, I know that one, but I actually looked into one and found nothing interesting. Mostly a bunch of paranoid people obsessed with "intelligence agencies" constantly looking through their sock drawers, as if spooks had literally nothing better to do with their time.
In the gemini thread, there was someone (rightfully) impressed, how it gdb'ed onto a kernel module and debugged iouring. All the harnisses i used ran atleast an ACL away from private files and juicy capabilities. Wtf is happening in the community?
Not that long ago, the joke was about grandparents installing every available toolbar into IE and getting hacked because "oh, neat! I want that!" without thinking about it.
Teacher of mine spent almost 20 years getting access to his FBI file through FOIA requests. Apparently it was surprising how much of his life they didn't know about.
Children with no life have never had anything worth keeping private. Even the question of having nothing to hide is foreign if you've never done anything at all.
It's like that parable about God giving us free will. If or when the intelligence agencies manage to create a generation with nothing to hide, what will their purpose be? You might as well take field notes on birds or sheep.
> I wish there was a tool I could use to share my documents, activity, etc. directly with the world's major intelligence agencies.
oh, good old times of PRISM, rightly bygone. Of course they don't do this now.
I don't get it
I think they’re saying they would rather use Muse or Dots.
Deep inside they're realizing that the whole privacy thing is overblown obsession, and nobody actually cares about their data, and they wish someone did, but clearly no one does, not even $5 gift card for everything there is to know about one.
He thinks his ideas are still valuable and wants to sell them somehow.
How comfortable are you sending a copy of every AI session transcript you generate to: 1) Me 2) The Chinese government 3) The US government
Being Danish I'd probably rate it China > you > US. Realistically though, I'm probably sending everything to everyone except for you.
I rate the US last because the US government shares information with European governments, so it's the most likely to affect me. I wrote this next to my dishwasher though, and if it's anything like those LG tv's it probably identified what I wrote from the keystroke sounds or something.
I live in China, they already have everything, especially when using appl products. It is basically mandatory here since privacy is a completely different concept here (not sure its even a concept here tbh. Although there are some privacy laws)
Totally.
Why the fuck would I care? The spooks definitely won't. I'm one person on a planet of 8 billion.
I think people don't appreciate the scale of that. A person is like a pixel on a 4k screen, in a wall that's made of many screens (about 5 in case of my country, about 42 in case of the US). Nobody cares what the single pixel does. It's not even visible unless it's so broken it doesn't change the same way surrounding pixels do.
I have a feeling that all this privacy obsession is actually a reaction to the unconscious feeling of irrelevance at this scale. In their minds, people defy the fact they're just sand for the systems of modern civilization - no, they are the very special ones, each fancies themselves a player among billions of NPCs, and to prove their uniqueness and specialness, they want to hide that fact from other NPCs, and get annoyed at the notion the world may indeed discover they are special.
Nothing else makes sense. Not in the west at least, where the only realistic threat from loss of privacy is getting weirder ads (hint: a real power move is to start with ad blocking and removing ads - and ad-infested media sources - from your life).
Now, loss of control over your daily life and your computing devices, that's another story. But most people don't seem to care about those.
Not really. But if I had a choice, I'd prefer that I get a third of an appetizer at Olive Garden rather than Zuck et. al. getting all the cheddar.
Is that really too much to ask for?
Facebook? (But they get the money ...)
Your documents are worth endless breadsticks as long as you keep making new ones, puny human
The chinese will go and suck in all of your laptop and everything else from your network when you install this ;)
> The chinese will go and suck in all of your laptop and everything else from your network when you install this ;)
So will western countries.
At least chinese offers 95% of the quality at 10% of the price.
I installed it on my laptop and it immediately vanished. I am sure Xi is browsing the hard drive right now.
Just put your trust in Big Winnie and all will be fine.
That's how AI works, sir.
>The chinese
You guys at Langley get Columbus Day off or did they go woke up there
The original title was "DeepSeek Harness Desktop app for MacOS and Windows"
This new title says nothing, we already know deepseek harness from before, this is a new product, an installable app worth differentiating from just "DeepSeek Harness"
Thanks, was wondering why this is in the feed.
Sigh. Yet another harness...
I'd probably check it out if it was actually called 'YAH Harness' and not [insert Chinese AI lab here] Harness
You don't have to use it. I don't use it. I still think it's really cool, and I've been thinking of trying to take ideas from it and integrate it into my own workflow. In particular, the session visualization tooling.
You can use it to write a plug-in to change the name to YAH Harness!
My suspicion is that getting a big binary with full permissions is the goal here. Harnesses will only run their companion models and will demand your Contacts list.
> I'm DeepSeek Harness, an open-source harness from DeepSeek built on Cordis's “everything is a plugin” architecture.
The binaries are from china. Your data goes to china. The self-updating plugin system is vulnerable to malicious llm provider. Anyone using this is crazy!
It's open source. Unlike Claude Code your beloved friend which is closed-source and uses steganography along with an astonishing array of telemetry and fingerprinting techniques to conduct intelligence analysis on its users.
As a non-American, I see handing my data to an American company as potentially just as risky as handing it to a Chinese company.
It's open source. Unlike Claude Code
Well under the current US administration as non-US citizens we kinda feel this sentiment about the US now fwiw.
Ahh! Not China! Real Americans™ let their data go to American™ companies!
The new danger is US administration and the current fascit regime. China has yet not topple a single government abroad, has not bombed a single country and has not tapped the phones of its allies.
Now don't down vote before understanding the definition of a fasict:
"A fascist is a person who advocates for or adheres to fascism, a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology."
China is none of that.
What if I use it in an isolated environment and only work on open source code with it?
> Your data goes to china.
What are they going to do? They have no jurisdiction over me.
No jurisdiction but their operatives have global reach. For most people the more practical risk for any rented ai is IP theft.
Exactly. Meanwhile, nearly all my personal data is stored on servers owned by US companies. Feels much more risky.
I strongly prefer China having access to my personal data than the US.
better this than three-letter agencies from some nazi warmongering alternative
Is there a safer alternative? It’s not like I can trust OpenAI since they’ve proven that they’ll steal research from mathematicians. X is run by a sociopath. Anthropic is going to IPO so who can say how long they’ll be trustworthy…
Both Z.AI and xAI have already proven you can't trust them, like at all. I guess other harnesses are in "I don't trust it, but it is convenient" category.
And Pi is considered the neutral choice: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49926069
Excited to try this!
Codex (ChatGPT desktop app) is truly the best in class when it comes to apps!
I, too, enjoy CocaCola™ for its natural flavors and smooth mouthfeel...